Wanted: Advice On Debenhams Online Order/purchase

Pint_Sized_Princess

Hi

I bought an item in the Debenhams sales and received an invoice for it through the post telling me it would be despatched and received within 2 weeks.

Today I received another letter stating that they have refunded the money to my account and the item is no longer available - so I rang them up and told them I'm not happy and I want a comparable item sent to me at the honoured price. Basically, the manager I spoke to told me I had no chance and they have now reverted me to Head Office, as I'm not happy to leave it at that.

I sat a corporate & business law exam a few years back and my hazy!? memory seems to recall that if they invoice me and take the money out of my account that is basically acceptance of the contract (i.e. consideration) - however if they just put the money back in my account (as they now have) can they get out of having a legal obligation to supply me with an item at the honoured price?

Basically I dont see the issue as resolved until I am sent either that item or another comparable item at the original price of purchase.

Anyone had any similar experiences or got any advice on where to go with this next?

98jdougl

on the terms and conditions you usually have to tick to agree to before purchase most places state that if the item is not in stock they will EITHER replace the item with an item of similair value OR refund.
They have kept to these conditions.

Why not use to refund to buy another item?

dmg24

If you purport to have some knowledge of the law, surely you would know to read the terms and conditions? They are quite clear (in fact, they are probably the clearest I have read for some time).

2.5 Unless we have notified you that we do not accept your order or you have cancelled it, order acceptance and the creation of the contract between you and us will take place on the despatch to you by us of the goods and order invoice, which takes place as your product is shipped from our warehouse. It does not take place until that stage, notwithstanding that we may have debited your card (see 2.3 above) or that we have sent acknowledging e-mails (see 2.4 above)

Pint_Sized_Princess

Thanks for that.

I know I'm probably being awkward but I don't want a refund - I want the item (or equivalent) at the honoured price as basically it was a fantastic bargain and I can't find a substitute item as cheaply as the price debenhams were offering this item for in the sale.

After a slightly heated discussion over the telephone, they did offer me instead a 20% further discount from a similar item they had in stock but this would have meant paying £42 instead of the £21 I orginally intended (basically twice the price) so I said no to that offer as I don't see this as a reasonable offer.

From my point of view, I ordered the item and they accepted when they invoiced me through the post stating that goods would be delivered no later than 2 weeks time.

The email confirmation I received when I ordered online stated:-

"This is not order confirmation or order acceptance by us. Unless we have notified you that we do not accept your order or you have cancelled it, order acceptance and the completion of the contract between you and us will take place on the despatch to you by us of the order invoice which takes place as your product is shipped from the warehouse."

Well..........although they didnt ship the goods, they did then send me that invoice (quoted above) through the post stating that goods would be delivered within 2 weeks - hence I'm taking receipt of the invoice through the post as "completion of contract".

dmg24

Think we cross posted, but as stated above, you need to read the terms and conditions. Unless they are in any way illegal, nothing overrides them.

Pint_Sized_Princess

Thanks for your reply, dmg24,

I think you are interpreting the terms and conditions differently to me.

Quote again from, my order confirmation email......."Unless we have notified you that we do not accept your order or you have cancelled it, order acceptance and the completion of the contract between you and us will take place on the despatch to you by us of the order invoice which takes place as your product is shipped from the warehouse."#

The company despatched the invoice to me prior to them writing to me cancelling and refunding the money to my account.

Wouldnt the contract be legally binding as they issued the invoice BEFORE cancellation, stating the item was on its way ?

If they hadn't issued this invoice but just cancelled my order then I agree - I would just have to accept the item as being out of stock. They have done this with other items within my order and I can accept that - its fair enough.

I'm still not content with accepting the refund - as its going to cost me at least 3 times the original sale price to get a comparable item.

dmg24

2.5 Unless we have notified you that we do not accept your order or you have cancelled it, order acceptance and the creation of the contract between you and us will take place on the despatch to you by us of the goods and order invoice, which takes place as your product is shipped from our warehouse. It does not take place until that stage, notwithstanding that we may have debited your card (see 2.3 above) or that we have sent acknowledging e-mails (see 2.4 above)

The email is largely irrelevant, as it does not override what is said in the terms and conditions. This is even stated in the t & c's.

The terms and conditions state that acceptance takes place when they invoice you and despatch the goods. The highlighted word is key here, as they had not done both, they had not yet accepted your order.

I can't stand Debenhams, I had so many bad experiences with them that I now refuse to ever go into their stores. However, their terms and conditions are very well written, and unambiguous.

Poppy9

Debenhams and Tesco are dreadful for taking money and then cancelling the order after a week or so. You are lucky Debenhams let you know as they have cancelled two of my orders in the past without informing me.

I think the SOGA needs to address the issue of suppliers taking money from an account before they have decided whether or not they are going to fulfil the order. They should only debit the account when they have confirmed that they have the stock to supply you with the goods. As it is now they could take any mount from your account, hold it for 2 or more weeks and then cancel an order and take another few days to refund you.

Pint_Sized_Princess

Thanks, I suppose I'll just have to get on the phone to them next week as I'm not prepared to let it drop just yet!

Certainly wont be placing any order with them again........unless this is resolved to my complete satisfaction - as half of the other items I ordered were conveniently cancelled - oh and they sent me a 120ml bottle of toiletries instead of the 240ml I ordered and tried to bill me for the higher price!

Very disappointed with them and I think I'm following in dmg24's footsteps and steering well clear of the place in future - in favour of their rival companies that do "deliver the goods" so to speak!!!!

cheekygilby

quote from Poppy9:
As it is now they could take any mount from your account, hold it for 2 or more weeks and then cancel an order and take another few days to refund you.[/quote]

Retailers cannot take more from your account than the agreed price of the item you wish to purchase, this is law! They can however refund you part of the purchase price depending on the situation etc but if its a pure cancelation of the order and no goods sent then a full refund will be done.

All distance selling retailers by law have upto 30 days to refund the customer from the cancelation date but normally retailers will refund well before this time.

Basically by Law all the retailer has to do is either provide the goods or refund within 30 days of either the retailer canceling or the consumer. Thats it nothing else - so you may want to take this into consideration when complaining.

I am a senior in consumer law so I know what I'm talking about.

Pint_Sized_Princess

[quote=cheekygilby;

Basically by Law all the retailer has to do is either provide the goods or refund within 30 days of either the retailer canceling or the consumer. Thats it nothing else - so you may want to take this into consideration when complaining.[/quote]

Not the answer I hoped for - but I guess I sort of expected it. I am still going to persist with requesting a suitable alternative as a goodwill gesture. As a matter of interest, Next have offered the same to me in the past in a very similar situation and so I'll be using that as a benchmark. I wont hold my breath.............

It just doesn't seem fair that companies can advertise "bargains" on their site, confirm they are in stock and take your money.....and then they conveniently arent there when the warehouse staff go to pick the order.

Anyway, I'll be much more wary of this issue in the future when thinking about online shopping for "bargains".......

...... rant over................:T