Help Section 21 notice and woes

Debt_Free_Chick

moneysavinmonkey wrote: »

Perfect.

Just one more thing to check - it is definitely an "Assured Shorthold Tenancy" . If so then the minimum term is 6 months and you can not be forced to leave early. If you are on a AST it is a STATUTORY RIGHT (ie overrides anything in your contract or verbally agreed) that you must get two months written notice. the two month period of notice must coincide with a rental period and can not end before the end of the fixed term. Therefore the notice is invalid.

Just to clarify ... agreed that the notice cannot end before the end of the fixed term. But the s21 can be issued at any time during the fixed term, provided two months' notice is given. The original notice would have been fine, if it had stated that the tenant was to vacate at the end of the fixed term. Or two months notice can be issued today, to end on 17 [STRIKE]January [/STRIKE] March.

The period of notice co-inciding with the rental date only applies once you are out of the AST and out of the fixed period - in which case you would be on a statutory periodic tenancy. It's then that the notice period has to co-incide with the rental period.

The landlord /agents must issue you with a new valid notice before the 6th February in order to give you notice to leave by the 6th April.

If they don't do anything by the 6th Feb, then the earliest they ask you to leave by is the 6th May (so you may want to keep quiet for a bit!)

A s21 can be given at any time during the fixed term, giving two months notice to quit. The two months runs from the date of the notice - provided this is within the fixed term - even if the date to vacate falls after the end of the fixed term.

If the date of the notice is more than two months before the end of the fixed period, the date to vacate cannot pre-date the end of the fixed period.

If a s 21 notice is given after the fixed term - and there is no AST - then the notice period starts with the next rent day and ends with the rent day two months following that.

So ... if the LL issues the s21 before 6 March, the tenant has two months notice.

If the LL issues the s21 after 6 March, the tenant has two months notice, beginning on 7 April ... or the rent day following the date of the notice. Of course, the LL has to put the right date on the notice otherwise it's not valid, anyway The LL can issue a s21 on, say, 10 March giving two months notice, with the property to be vacated on 6 June. If the date is anything other than 6 June, it's not valid

Finally .... notices issued after the fixed term, when the tenancy is a statutory periodic tenancy are - strictly speaking - issued under s21(4)(a) of the Housing Act, rather than s21 of the Act.

Debt_Free_Chick

moneysavinmonkey wrote: »

I would say nothing for now and get advice from CAB or Shelter. Then send a recorded letter to the agents sometime after the 6th Feb saying that the section 21 is invalid, and as you have not been served a valid possession notice you will not be vacating the property. As long as you continue to pay your rent on time you are now on a STATUTORY PERIODIC TENANCY.

Say nothing until 7 March, when the AST ends. ONLY THEN are they on an SPT. The current AST has a fixed term which ends on 6 March 2008 - not 6 February

moneysavinmonkey

Debt_Free_Chick wrote: »

Say nothing until 7 March, when the AST ends. ONLY THEN are they on an SPT. The current AST has a fixed term which ends on 6 March 2008 - not 6 February

Ah yes, thanks DBC.. that is quite important! (but then I don't claim to be a landlord and did advise getting "qualified" advice - so i'm letting myself off the hook)

Debt_Free_Chick wrote: »

The original notice would have been fine, if it had stated that the tenant was to vacate at the end of the fixed term. Or two months notice can be issued today, to end on 17 January.

Presume this is a typo... and you meant to say 'end on 17 March' ??

Definately Friday afternoon - think i'll head down to the pub, since Tassotti is buying! :beer:

Tassotti

AGAIN, all legally correct, but you have plenty of time to find another place...Why put the LL through grief?!? Find somewhere else and move...

moneysavinmonkey

Why not!! :rotfl: Doesn't seem like the landlord has given much consideration to the hassle they are putting the OP through.

Seriously though, as I said already you should concentrate your energy on finding a new home, just make sure you find somewhere you are happy with and don't be pressurised by the landlord to move before you are ready.

Debt_Free_Chick

moneysavinmonkey wrote: »

Aso i'm letting myself off the hook

Nowt wrong with that. At least you have the good grace to post back and clarify things No need to "fall on your sword" but it helps the OP and others if we all post back acknowledging any corrections. Otherwise, people are left wondering who is right

Presume this is a typo... and you meant to say 'end on 17 March' ??

Oh, for heavens' sake .. now I'm at it! Thanks ... I'll edit that post

Definately Friday afternoon - think i'll head down to the pub, since Tassotti is buying! :beer:

I'm with you both! :beer: :j

Tassotti

Thought I knew Section 21 to death (and do when sober)

The truth is in these threads somewhere!! :rotfl:

Lets go :beer: one and all

Tass

speedtwin

I am now going to throw a spanner in the works concerning section 21. If the rent in the contract is payable monthly (as it normally is) but you except six months up front it alters the nature of the original contract and if you wanted to serve a section 21 at the end of the tenancy period it would have to be dated six months in advance.

Now before you start jumping up and down shouting rubbish

This situation is backed up by recent case law, CHURCH COMMISSIONERS V MEYA (2006)

The approach adopted in the county courts under section 5(3)(d) of the housing act 1988 was that if the rent under thefixed term tenancy was payable weekly the tenancy arising at the end of the fixed term would be a weekly tenancy, but if the rent was paid monthly the periods would be monthly and so on.

But of course this depends if the judge knows the law

imcarm

Tassotti wrote: »

Legally, the above post is correct, and will give you another two months to look for somewhere else, but if you're gonna go, you're gonna go.

Plenty of time to find somewhere else.

Landlord has his own reasons to want a vacant property, and it is none of my, yours or anyone elses' business.

You found a LL that would take on you, no matter what your past, and I am sure you will again (hopefully...I wouldn't let you even view one of my properties, but thats just me)

Make provisions to move and good luck

Tass

I think you misread my post, I don't believe I ever mentioned my past? my credit history is fine, my references are perfect. I have been a very good tenant - I'm surprised you have any tenants at all with that kind of attitude. :rolleyes:

The reason I'm not happy is because I was promised a long term agreement after the 6 month contract, I'm looking for somewhere else but to be kicked out for no reason at all is a hard pill to take. I haver asked the landlord and the agent but neither can give me a valid reason (by law I assume they don't have to give me a reason) - Thanks for all the advise you have all been a great help.

I must do my research on Section 21 and seek advise from CAB.

Lavendyr

No offence intended at all, but you said that your partner is declared bankrupt, which regardless of your own credit history will make it more difficult for you to get another tenancy than someone who does not have a bankrupt partner.

Either way, whether you can stay till 23rd Feb or 6th March, you definitely need to start looking for a new place. ASTs are unfortunately very lacking in security of tenure.