Troublesome lodger

mcchell

Hi Spirit

When your lodger signed the contract he agreed to abide by your rules. Therefore you are within your rights to evict this person (technically as you are a live in landlord you don't have to give notice!). It would be wrong of you to withhold rent if the tenant tells you they have found somewhere sooner - and lets face it you want him out.

You would however be entitled to keep some or all of the deposit for making good the room after he has been smoking in it. So long as you have something similar to this in the contract:

[FONT=&quot]The tenant will;.......
....[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Ensure that the furnishings and any other fixtures, fittings or effects provided by [/FONT][FONT=&quot]the landlord and listed in the inventory are not destroyed, damaged (fair wear and tear expected) or removed from the property without prior permission.
...
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]....[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Pay for the repair or replacement of any furnishings or any other fixtures, fittings or other equipment provided by the landlord as detailed in the inventory which have [/FONT][FONT=&quot]been broken, lost, damaged or destroyed during the tenancy (fair wear and tear excepted).[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
Smoke staining of the walls/wallpaper, furniture and other areas of the property by locality is effectively damaging them.

Next time though if you don't want a tenant to smoke in the house you would be better getting a non smoking tenant in the frst place!
[/FONT]

jamesd

clutton, the tenancy deposit rules apply to ASTs and this is not an AST.

spirit, does the rent book (mandatory for weekly tenants) or anything else provide the tenant with ample evidence that it has in fact been a weekly tenancy? Professional cleaning of one room seems unlikely to cost more than one week's rent. As an excluded tenancy with weekly period that's the notice that is required and you've already taken the rent for that one week of notice by the tenant to you, which overrides your own longer notice period. There is a requirement also that the notice be reasonable but this seems to have been reasonable in the circumstances. So: you have all of the rent due to you and any use of the deposit must be clearly demonstrable and necessary.

Was the weekly rent paid one quarter of the monthly amount, hence higher than the monthly rent would have been and very clearly establishing that it was in fact a weekly tenancy or that you have collected rent greater than in the agreement? Or did you collect only for four weeks each month even if there were five weekly rent days in the month? Or did you divide the monthly amount by 4.33 to get the weekly equivalent rent? If you have been collecting each week for more than one quarter of the monthly amount are you prepared to refund to the tenant the excess payments above the monthly rent amount?

WTF?_2

I don't see the problem here - you want the lodger out and he is willing to go now. Sounds like everyone should be happy with the situation.

You seem to however want the money from him anyway, even if he goes now. That's not reasonable: You're within your rights to want him out but you don't get to keep the money too when he goes I'm afraid.

If his room requires extra cleaning because of his smoking (which it may well do) then you can take that additional cost out of his deposit.

london_saver

Wow, some of you peeps on here make it sounds as if Spirit is some monster landlod!

Surely if this was a rental situation i.e. landlord vs tenant. If landlord has served notice on tenant (could be for any reason) the landlord should recieve payment for the perid that is served to the tenant up to the end of the notice period. If the tenant hasnt paid rent for anytime of the period served, then the landlord can take it from the deposit, thats what deposits are there for, to protect the tenant and the landlord.

IMO - if you have served notice, take payment from tenant for period served/ owed (if from tenant or from deposit) and also charge tenant for any cleaning or damages made to room after they have vacated.

You may all make comments about "being fair", but basically the lodger has broken the agreements made for the lodging and the landlord has a right to end the tenancy. Surely the lodger must be fair to the landlord and abide by the rules?

As with any tenancy agreement and rental, if you have given your one months notice, you can leave at anytime, but you still have to make sure that you pay that one months notice or until the period that you have agreed is the end of the tenancy. If Spirit has served notice, she/ he still has a right to notice to be paid for the room right up until the end date. Its not being greedy.

clutton_2

this is a lodger - not a tenant - different legal rules apply

jamesd

london_saver, a landlord is prohibited from taking rent that is owed from the damage deposit. Landlords abusing damage deposits in that way is part of why we now have deposit protection schemes for assured shorthold tenancies. If the landlord here takes future rent (that isn't even owed at all!) from the (not solely damage) deposit the tenant can and should take her to court to recover the money and the costs of legal proceedings.

This is not an AST. The requirement for notice is that it has to be reasonable, so the tenant can get another place. The landlord here gave one month's notice. That seemed to pass the reasonableness test. The tenant then found another place and gave the landlord one week's notice. That also seems reasonable given the situation at that time and the weekly tenancy period.

The tenant seems to have broken some house rules and become liable for some smoke cleaning costs (probably well under a week's rent) but seems to have correctly acted on a weekly tenancy basis for notice. Now it's up to the landlord to return the deposit less the cost of the cleaning (supported by receipts, ideally).

Major possible hassle for the spirit is if the weekly rental collections have been more than 1/4.33 of the monthly amount and the tenancy has lasted more than nine months (if weekly payments were monthly/4) because each month would have accumulated a rent overcharge of 1/3 a week. That could see the tenant taking her to court to recover overpaid rent, arguing that it was a monthly tenancy and using the lack of rent book to support the claim. Yes, I am writing that the tenant can try to have it both ways, weekly if that's best, monthly if that's best instead. Then the court will decide based on the balance of evidence... and spirit will lose in either case IMO, because the court will take the tenant's side due to her failings (no rent book if weekly is best for spirit; possibly overpaid rent but anyway the fact of weekly payments, if monthly is best for spirit).

spirit

Phew, lots of responses to answer, thank you to each and every one who has given their input - it is much appreciated. I have had 3 other lodgers in this same room over the last 18 months and they have all left the room in A1 condition and have had every penny of their deposits returned. No-one has their money or anything else stolen by me and I take offence at the suggestion that they do/might.

As some of you have said, I have licencee's not tenants as they are not on AST's since I live there too. Their deposits are kept in a separate account although since they are not on an AST Clutton, I do not have to 'protect' their deposit. Nor am I a bossy, controlling person, just a decent, clean living, non smoking, honest landlord. The lodger has broken 2 fundamental rules, he signed to pay the rent on time and to keep the house rules. I should add that I caught him smoking in the room before Christmas and insisted he clean it thoroughly and I cleaned the curtains. However, I could smell smoke as I walked upstairs and found evidence in the room that he indeed had either started again or continued to smoke.

He knew before he moved in that it is a non smoking house and I have bent over backwards to accommodate him in that respect. He goes outside sometimes to smoke, but I did say that if it was very cold or raining that he may stand in the utility room with the stable door open. I have learned since that if you try to be nice to people that they often take the mick.

Jamesd, it is a monthly agreement, not weekly, but I (reluctantly) agreed that he could pay me weekly since he gets paid weekly. It was worked out over 52 weeks to get the monthly amount and then divided by 4 to get the weekly.

London_saver, the licence agreement (standard one I got from Landlordzone, not one I made up) says that I may take any unpaid rent, utilities and damages from the deposit. Obviously previous occupants have all got 100% of theirs back which is why this particular one is new to me.

Jamesd. this is not an AST so is not the same 'damage deposit' and I don't have to join deposit schemes, I am an honest landlord so I do keep the money separately.

Since I now don't trust the licencee and believe that he was still smoking in there yesterday, I am going to get him to leave asap since Debtfreechick is right, I'd rather have peace than constantly having to wonder what he's up to and spraying airfreshener on the landing. It might be easier to re-let once i've cleaned it up anyway.

Thank you again to everyone for their views.

christina

Debt_Free_Chick

Some things money can't buy or compensate for.

Glad you found my suggestion useful

Move on and in the months to come you will have forgotten the misery you're currently experiencing.

Good luck

SerenaGoode

spirit wrote: »

Since I now don't trust the licencee and believe that he was still smoking in there yesterday, I am going to get him to leave asap since Debtfreechick is right, I'd rather have peace than constantly having to wonder what he's up to and spraying airfreshener on the landing. It might be easier to re-let once i've cleaned it up anyway.

OK, I hope you don't then try to keep the deposit. And yes in my opinion it would be stealing if you do that. It's an ugly word, but it brings out the truth of the situation which is taking someone's money that you have no right to keep.

Your original question was this: "However, as he has and continues to break the rules, can I have him evicted now and use his deposit for the remainder of the rent?"

So basically you wanted to have your cake and eat it. You wanted him out, but you wanted the rent paid. The issue of smoking is neither here nor there. Debt-free Chick was right - if you are unhappy that he is breaking house rules, give him four weeks notice and allow him to stay. If you want him out immediately, let him leave and don't expect any rent from the point when he leaves.

robpw2

ok if he has broken the terms of cotract you can keep his deposit but not as rent ...
you can have it to clean the room but you would need to be able to proivide proof of this .
YOu can have it to cover any expenses caused bu unpaid rent up untill the point you served notice .