Cheap and well cared for meat? Can we have it all?

kethry

lindseykim13 - thats only for battery hens - i.e. egg laying hens. as of 2012 no one will be able to buy barn eggs, only free range. what HFW is campaigning about is meat chickens

keth
xx

Pandora123_2

lindseykim13 wrote: »

So the problem is now that i either buy the cheap chicken and feel guilty or find an alternitive meat at 2.50! and as for not eating meat we only have 2 meals a week which contain meat and i think for a balanced diet my kids need some form of meat.

Actually, meat is completely unnecessary for a balanced diet for both children and adults.

"It is the position of the American Dietetic Association and Dietitians of Canada that appropriately planned vegetarian diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate and provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases." (link)

Vegetarian & vegan diets for children

:A

lil_me

I need to add something after chatting to a friend who helped at an organic farm last summer, this is what she said

Please don't pressume all organic farms look after the animals well. I worked in a farm during the summer who only farmed organically. The farmer was absolutely horrible to the animals, he hit them, didn't feed them if he couldn't be bothered, didn't feed them if he was busy, didn't provide proper shelter for them, left very poorly animals without any treatment, didn't clean out the animals as often as he should, left dead animals in a paddock with others for days before removing the rotten body, regularly didn't refil water and it was very hot. This was just a few things I noticed, I left because working there made me cry.

So there you go, don't think I will pressume organic means treated well ever again.

My children don't eat many other proteins, I feed my family what I believe they need, so nope, I won't be changing to vegetarian diets. Thanks for the info, interesting reading, saying that there are so many conflicting reports in research into foods etc, if we listed to them all we wouldn't eat/drink anything.

I also wouldn't question what anyone else believes is right for their family, I wouldn't even consider it, I think it's disgusting to question someone elses choice for their family, based on one or one million pieces of biased/unbiased research. I will provide evidence, research pages and other items I believe will help assist them make educated choices, but I would never tell them they are right or wrong with what they choose to do.

HariboJunkie

lil_me wrote: »

I need to add something after chatting to a friend who helped at an organic farm last summer, this is what she said

Please don't pressume all organic farms look after the animals well. I worked in a farm during the summer who only farmed organically. The farmer was absolutely horrible to the animals, he hit them, didn't feed them if he couldn't be bothered, didn't feed them if he was busy, didn't provide proper shelter for them, left very poorly animals without any treatment, didn't clean out the animals as often as he should, left dead animals in a paddock with others for days before removing the rotten body, regularly didn't refil water and it was very hot. This was just a few things I noticed, I left because working there made me cry.

So there you go, don't think I will pressume organic means treated well ever again.

My children don't eat many other proteins, I feed my family what I believe they need, so nope, I won't be changing to vegetarian diets. Thanks for the info, interesting reading, saying that there are so many conflicting reports in research into foods etc, if we listed to them all we wouldn't eat/drink anything.

I also wouldn't question what anyone else believes is right for their family, I wouldn't even consider it, I think it's disgusting to question someone elses choice for their family, based on one or one million pieces of biased/unbiased research. I will provide evidence, research pages and other items I believe will help assist them make educated choices, but I would never tell them they are right or wrong with what they choose to do.

:T Well said that woman. :beer:

I never buy chicken breasts as they are so uneconomical so a whole FR bird doesn't make that big a dent in the budget for me than an intensively farmed one but like you I am a big believer in being non judgemental and each to his own......
I do believe we are designed to eat meat biologically. Ethics/taste are a different matter.
I do believe intensive farming is cruel.
I do believe that organic is often wrongly taken as a byword for free range:rolleyes:
I do believe that if more people wanted FR chicken the farming industry would be happier in the long term to see their products valued
AND.....I do believe we still have freedom of choice in this country.;)

Frogga.....While your idea of a utopia of a planet of vegetarians makes for a lovely image of us all eating tofu and keeping cows as pets I do think it's fairly unlikely to happen.

furndire

Have you noticed how much fat you get from a cheap chicken when its cooked ~ presumably because they are made to keep eating without exercise. By the time the excess water which has been pumped into them, and the fat has dripped out, the free range chicken isn't much more expensive than the cheaper ones(which shrink when cooked). Plus they have much more flavour.

~Chameleon~

thriftlady wrote: »

Absolutely, I posted on the other thread -Chicken out one, that I made a 2Kg+ free-range chicken make 18 portions (includes stock for soup) for 33p a head -not as good as you but it aint bad is it.

Hi thriftlady, I think you might have mis-read what I wrote earlier as I was saying that a free range chicken need only cost about 25p per person more than one of the intensely farmed ones, not that I was stretching it to that myself.

That's absolutely amazing what you manage to achieve and in fact your portions work out around half the price of mine, well done you!!!! :T

I guess I could make our portion sizes a little smaller but we do like our meat

frogga

Penelope_Penguin wrote: »

Hi, frogga :j long time, no speak :T

Can you clarify what you mean by the above point? I thought humans were omniverous, and that's why we have canine teeth - like dogs

Penny. x

Hi Penny , Hope you are well xx
Oooooooooooooooo What an interesting Debate I love these!:j I've been banned from doing Religon, Politics or Veganism by my family as it always gets so heated :rotfl: Not by me though!

There are so many different "Experts" that will give you an argument either way. A really good book to read is Plant Based Nutrition and Health by Stephen Walsh. It gives you all the facts about getting a healthy balanced diet not eating meat :T

As for the teath thing ~ that old chestnut! I have widely read that many other animals have similar teeth and are veggie. Look at the size of teeth of a bull elephant ~ completely veggie :T ALSO carnivores have long incisors or fangs and long sharp claws.

Our problem is that we have been brainwashed into believing that we need meat, but if you look at nature you'll see we don't. Primates are veggie. I know that some will find it hard to accept that we are not designed to eat meat, but to me it's obvious. We dont have the necessary digestive systems and chemicals in our stomachs to digest meat, extract the nutrients and dispose of the wastes. Carnivores have alot more hydrochloric acid than humans which is used to break down meat. Meat putrefies quickly, so carnivores have comparatively short intestines designed to dispose of the decomposing meat in the shortest possible time.

I don't think we are emmotionally equiped to eat meat either hense the obvious concerns raised in the thread. We are civilised human beings and have been educated not to commot barbarous acts.

I have no desire to lecture anyone or make any one feel bad about what they are feeding their family. I have HUGE respect for the other posters on this thread esp Penny, Lil me and Haribo. I am only pointing out that eating meat is TOTALLY unnecessary and not, IMO natural.

Having said all that, Mr Frog DOES eat meat. I would NEVER not buy it or cook it for him. My morals are my own , not his. Even though we are skint, I would only buy freedom foods et.c , because even though Mr Frog eats meat and hasn't got a problem with it, he does have a concern for animal welfare.

One day I'll be thought of as a Pioneer, not an annoying self opinionated crank!!

No matter how skint we are we must keep to a certan level of standards. I would never steal from my fellow man and as the more intelligent species it is our duty to respect and not exploit the others, and not steal their dignity, rights, and ultimatly their lives.

~Chameleon~

You might almost convince me to become veggie after reading that Frogga

Trouble is I do enjoy eating meat, although we have started eating much less of it over recent months as I am concerned about animal welfare and obviously the free range and organic options are more expensive. We have to live on a tight budget as many others here do also.

We also tend to eat more fish than we used to do but again I'm now questioning whether buying the 2 for £5 packs of salmon steaks at Tesco is no more ethical than the 2 for £5 chickens they sell

Sometimes I really hate this world we live in and almost feel like we should just give up eating completely! I know that's a bit extreme but I do find myself getting stressed out by all this and the recent bombardment of tv programmes exposing the hidden facts of the food industry is becoming quite overwhelming

alec_eiffel

foreign_correspondent wrote: »

rabbit has a lovely life and is cheap or free!

If you can catch your own rabbits then fair play to you (I was told by the steward of the Golf Club I used to work at that one caught on a golf course would taste better than one from any old field because it's been eating well cared for grass! lol)

Anyway, twas in the Guardian a couple of week's ago that many shop bought rabbits are actually factory farmed abroad and sold over here with people just assuming they've been shot in the wild or whatever. Apologies I don't have the link, it may or may not have been part of the article about game linked to earlier in this thread...

frogga

I understand completely how you feel Cameleon. Mr frog says the same. I think it's easier fot the Tadpoles to have this stance because "what you never had, you never miss!" I also do agree that if you thought about everythng you did, you wouldn't do ANYTHING! Cheap clothes from sweat shops et.c. All I can say to that is that I am not part of the "Vegan Police" and every little change you can make is one for the good. Don't beat yourself up about it all though, the fact that it makes you think is a great credit to your compassion already