'Hugh's Chicken Run' A Moral Dilemna for DFWs?

ZTD

SarahNeedle1872 wrote: »

*if* for arguments sake, everyone started buying free range, would the farmers not be almost 'forced' into more intensive farming methods for those birds too?

There's a limit, otherwise they wouldn't be free-range. But even then, somebody will try it.

ZTD

hbl wrote: »

The system is a liberal democracy and capitalist no matter who you vote for.

Like I said - depends how you define it.

fc123

competitionscafe wrote: »

Hydrogenated oils (trans fats) are unhealthy in many other ways too:
http://www.tfx.org.uk/key1.html

They can be quite hard to avoid though - they can be found in pastry, biscuits, ice-cream, crisps.......... http://www.tfx.org.uk/page13.html

And some products are using palm oil instead (which is just as bad and there are some environmental issues with it too....sorry not techy so cannot provide a link to back this up...but I DID read it somewhere!!!)

The first Asda shop my OH did after I made him read Felicity Lawrence's book, he 'phoned me bleating "I can't buy anything in here"!!!!

It took us about 3 years to fully "convert" and we now have the embarrassing thing of getting quite ill if we eat stuff with all the mod starch, trans fats, salt etc in it.
Makes going around to friends houses to eat a bit dicey!
One spends a fortune on pre-prepared from M+S (I used to love all their ready made stuff) but we go there for the chat and the vino...and pick at the food!!!!

This should be re-named the ALTERNATIVE SLIMMUING DIET THREAD. It does work!!!

sleepymy

fc123 wrote: »

And some products are using palm oil instead (which is just as bad and there are some environmental issues with it too....sorry not techy so cannot provide a link to back this up...but I DID read it somewhere!!!)

Palm oil is used in a lot of supermarket own brand foods and 'healthy' foods like cereal bars even though it is as bad for you as trans fats. To grow the palms for commercial use more and more forest is being cleared and it is eating into the Orangutan habitat threatening their existence. Often the foresters shoot the adult orangutans and take the babies to keep as pets (and don't know how to care for them properly) or sell them.
http://www.orangutan.com/orangutans_avoid_palmoil.html

HTHs

fc123

sleepymy wrote: »

Palm oil is used in a lot of supermarket own brand foods and 'healthy' foods like cereal bars even though it is as bad for you as trans fats. To grow the palms for commercial use more and more forest is being cleared and it is eating into the Orangutan habitat threatening their existence. Often the foresters shoot the adult orangutans and take the babies to keep as pets (and don't know how to care for them properly) or sell them.
http://www.orangutan.com/orangutans_avoid_palmoil.html

HTHs

That's what I read!!!!. I must start trying to teach myself linkys and stuff but all info I read is from books, newspapers, not on-line!
The thread is transforming into something else here too!:T

ZTD

fc123 wrote: »

The thread is transforming into something else here too!:T

Well it's a generalised money vs ethics thing with the twist that money is a lot more important to DFW'ers than other people - and does that, and should that impinge on the the ethics?

red74

SarahNeedle1872 wrote: »

*if* for arguments sake, everyone started buying free range, would the farmers not be almost 'forced' into more intensive farming methods for those birds too? - I'm not saying we should not buy free range because of this, just got me thinking......

Assuming the economic principles of supply and demand, this would probably end up with supermarkets increasing prices for free range because demand would be outstripping supply - unless production could keep up through more farms (as ZTD said, there's only so far you can intensify production before it's no longer free-range).

We rarely buy chicken anyway so I can't comment on that but it's not uncommon to go into our local supermarket and it to have totally sold out of all eggs except the battery farm ones (which means toast again for breakfast). Whether or not it's because they don't have as big a supply or because they have ethical customers I don't know.

fc123

ZTD wrote: »

Well it's a generalised money vs ethics thing with the twist that money is a lot more important to DFW'ers than other people - and does that, and should that impinge on the the ethics?

Now I am really into the DFW way, we have automatically become more ethical in some areas by default.

The dustpan and brush set for a pound (Made in China) that I bought the other day is probably not though (as is a lot of the other "stuff and clutter" sold in the pound shops).

Can I just post some other reading if anyone has the time?

"Shopped" by Johanna Blythman. How the supermarkets con us.

"Tescopoly" by Andrew Simms. The damage that big companies such as Tesco and their monopolies are doing to the country and the future effects of it.
I read this as I am an independent retailer and it has led me to start a long term plan to change career.

"Two Caravans" by Marina Lewycka. Great novel includes a chapter about working in a battery chicken farm. She does acknowledge Felicity Lawrence at the back (among others)

LouBlue

Well, popped into my local farm shop today. Got some free range eggs as usual as was about to pick up a chicken, when I noticed how cheap they were, so I asked the butcher there. And he told me none of them were free range. I just admit, I had always assumed they were! He said they were barn fed, they didn't go outside, but had a lot more room than the battery fed and did get some fresh air. I didn't buy one. But he said they were getting them in next week as they had been inundated the past week with people asking them if they sold free range. Looks like the programme has indeed made an impact.

ZTD

fc123 wrote: »

Can I just post some other reading if anyone has the time?

No! No! No!....OK go on then...

fc123 wrote: »

"Shopped" by Johanna Blythman. How the supermarkets con us.

"Tescopoly" by Andrew Simms. The damage that big companies such as Tesco and their monopolies are doing to the country and the future effects of it.
I read this as I am an independent retailer and it has led me to start a long term plan to change career.

"Two Caravans" by Marina Lewycka. Great novel includes a chapter about working in a battery chicken farm. She does acknowledge Felicity Lawrence at the back (among others)

Actually I'm currently in the middle of selecting a few books to get, so if you have more suggestions to add to the "weeding list", then go ahead. "Not on the label" has popped up quite often, so that'll be a definate.