survey

thebullsback

we are expecting a visit from countrywide surveyors next week who will carry out a level 2 survey on our property .

Alarmingly there or quite a few negative comments online about this company but hey hoo.

My question is as I intend to ask them what their survey has found good or bad do i have a right to know or will they come the old we can only tell the paying client card ?

koalakoala

yep that’s what normally happens

Albermarle

If you are friendly with them and they are the friendly type, they might give you an idea about a couple of points, if you just chat to them rather asking too many direct questions.

However they are paid by their client, not you, and some will not say anything.

poseidon1

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6687075/survey

England has an adversarial conveyancing system which encourages a vendor to supply the bare minimum of information necessary for a prospective buyer to make an informed decision.

The surveyor instructed by purchasers work for and answerable to purchasers only. They owe no duty of care to vendors.

As such I would be extremely displeased if a surveyor working on my dime, thought fit to share any of their findings with the vendor especially where some of those findings are potential bargaining points.

Therefore sure you can ask, but be prepared to be ( politely) rebuffed. No amount of 'friendly' enquiry of the surveyor should evince the sharing of information which 'belongs' to the prospective purchaser. One would hope you would understand this dynamic if/when you become a purchaser.

Section62

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82171919#Comment_82171919

As such I would be extremely displeased if a surveyor working on my dime, thought fit to share any of their findings with the vendor especially where some of those findings are potential bargaining points.

The flip side is if a surveyor uses their discretion to explain some of the issues to the vendor then the vendor is less likely to think the buyer is trying it on when it comes to negotiation.

Chartered surveyors are also professionals who have to act in the public interest - the client might be paying, but this doesn't fetter the surveyor's freedom to do what they feel is necessary to fulfill their professional obligations. For example if a surveyor sees something which is particularly unsafe then not warning the property owner (/vendor) could be a breach of their rules of conduct, and possibly open them up to criminal sanction.

poseidon1

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82171967#Comment_82171967

RICS adamantly disagrees with your contention that surveyors contracted on behalf of buyers owe any duty of care to vendors affected by their reports -

https://www.ricsfirms.com/glossary/disagreeing-with-a-prospective-buyer-s-survey/

Also clear a surveyor is professionally and contractually forbidden to discuss their report or reveal any aspect of it to a vendor without express consent of the buyer.

Clearly as far as RICS is concerned there is no duality of responsibility to both buyer and vendor, so what is your authority to the contrary and please supply your source ( assuming you have one).

jimi_man

When we sold last year, the buyers had a Level 3 survey done. A pleasant chap and I was chatting to him while he went round doing the checks. TBH it was easy to see what issues he found and he would ask questions about some of them (Artex containing asbestos etc).

At the end of it he said that it was a reasonable purchase (his recommendation to the buyers) and that there were a few issues he’d have to highlight - the Artex and there might be drain issues and recommended a drain survey. The vendors had this done and when the guy came - another pleasant fellow - he said that he wasn’t allowed to discuss any of the findings or tell us what he found. However he did say that it was my house and if I wanted to stand outside and watch him and the camera monitor and look at what it showed, then he couldn’t stop me! (I did and they were all clear, but it was interesting to watch).

That’s a long winded way of saying that you might get one that is informative or you might not.

Section62

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82172023#Comment_82172023

RICS adamantly disagrees with your contention that surveyors contracted on behalf of buyers owe any duty of care to vendors affected by their reports

….

Clearly as far as RICS is concerned there is no duality of responsibility to both buyer and vendor, so what is your authority to the contrary and please supply your source ( assuming you have one).

I think "adamantly" and "clearly" are going a fair way beyond the evidence you present.

As a one-time professional in a related field I have personal knowledge and experience of the public interest responsibility that comes with the role.

And of course I have a source - the RICS Rules of Conduct. Which a conscientious reader may have noticed is linked to within the link you provided.

https://www.rics.org/profession-standards/rics-standards-and-guidance/conduct-competence/rules-of-conduct

In particular Rule 5 -

Members and firms must act in the public interest, take responsibility for their actions and act to prevent harm and maintain public confidence in the profession.

One of the key skills required of a chartered professional is being able to navigate potential conflicts of interest and 'do the right thing'. If a surveyor sees something which is particularly unsafe then the public interest may require them to act by warning the building owner, and possibly notifying the local building authority. They must act to prevent harm. They cannot rely on the prospective purchaser to share a copy of the final report with the vendor - because the prospective purchaser may have no duty to inform the vendor, or neglect to do so, or simply not understand how serious the situation is. The professional surveyor has to balance their client responsibility and any duty of confidentiality against the public interest of avoiding vendors and their family/guests coming to harm because they were unaware their home was unsafe.

A broader understanding of professional responsibility gives a more nuanced position than your link is able to convey. If the surveyor acts with integrity and places greater importance on protecting human life than giving a potential purchaser the chance to buy a property for a few £k less then it is unlikely that either RICS or a court would say they have acted improperly. Public confidence in the profession depends on professionals doing the right thing, not safeguarding "potential bargaining points" regardless of all else.

stuart45

I remember something about having a duty of care when I was doing the home inspection course. I think the example was what do when surveying a property and you notice an unsupported chimney breast showing signs of stress cracking. I think the answer was to report it to Building Control, although it was over 20 years ago.

poseidon1

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82172082#Comment_82172082

My response to everything you have said is the English doctrine of 'privity of contract' ie only the immediate parties to a contract bear the burdens and benefits of a contract to the exclusion of third parties. To that end you will no doubt be aware of all surveyor standard form contracts that under the liability headings typically state the following -

The report is provided for your use, and the surveyor cannot accept responsibility if it is used, or relied upon, by anyone else. 
No third-party liability is accepted, meaning no other parties other than the Client named within the report may rely upon its content. We do not hold any liability to any third party.

What individual surveyors might do on a nod and wink basis with individual vendors in contravention of their overriding duty to purchasers is obviously up to surveyor concerned but hopefully they are ever mindful of the penalties they face from their client should any breach they commit negatively effect the purchaser .

As for you quoting Rule 5, there is absolutely nothing in the 9 examples RICs choose to illustrate the scope of that rule that supports anything you have stated to apply within the specific confines of surveyor/ consumer purchaser contract being discussed here. The following article I believe is indicative of the general view of the profession, ie 'loose lips' can lead to a potential claim on your professional indemnity cover -

https://ww3.rics.org/uk/en/journals/property-journal/opinion--who-to-tell-about-your-surveys-.html

HouseHuntingAmy

Coming at this from the other side as someone saving for a first purchase: the survey report is the buyer's, they paid for it, and most surveyors will politely hold the 'paying client' line if asked directly. But in practice sellers usually do find out what came up, just through a different door - if the survey flags anything the buyer wants to act on, it tends to arrive via the estate agent within a week or two, usually as part of a price conversation.

jimi_man's approach sounds like the practical one: friendly on the day, chat while they work. They're human, and if there's nothing much wrong they'll often say so in so many words, even if they won't hand over the detail.

For what it's worth, a Level 2 on an ordinary house very often comes back with a list of maintenance niggles rather than deal-breakers. If something serious does appear, hearing about it early through the agent is arguably better than the alternative - it gives you the chance to get your own quotes for the work before the renegotiation starts, rather than being bounced into a reduction based on the buyer's estimate.