Boundary query

kitrat

Hi I'm after a quick bit of help please.

We've lived in our older house about 8 years and our semi-deteached neighbour is doing up the vacant house next door to be sold.

He is now rebuilding his fence around his garden including our fence that divides our gardens(we will be paying him). He has discovered the existing fence does not sit on the boundry line exactly. You can see the old fence post in the hedge and our current fence has 'claimed about 20cm at the far end of his garden. This doesn't sound like much but it cuts about a half to a third of an already small flower border in our garden next to a patio and a greenhouse.

As he is selling he says he doesn't mind where he puts the fence back. I'd like to know legally where we stand. The deeds do look like he is correct and the original old fencepost is correct. But the fence was in place when we bought the property 8 or so years ago and the fence posts are of an age where I beleive they've been there for decades.

If we rebuild the fence excatly where it is will a new buyer have grounds to dispute the placement of the fence?

Woodstok2000

Yes they will.

Baldytyke88

Someone I know has just installed a new fence, the house next door was sold at auction, gained a good few inches. I imagine it will be ok. But would you risk it?

Dustyevsky

kitrat: If we rebuild the fence excatly where it is will a new buyer have grounds to dispute the placement of the fence?

If you remove the very old fence post there will be less chance of that happening.

The likelihood of a dispute also depends on whether there are other features which would make the fence look as if it takes the wrong line, when compared with your and your neighbour's title plans.

Most boundaries are hard to pinpoint exactly, because a red line on a typical Land Registry plan is usually about 30cm wide when scaled-up to real world size, but that doesn't stop some people arguing over a few cm!

So, the short answer is maybe, and the longer one, it's possible, but if it's a good new fence and difficult or expensive for a new neighbour to alter, I'd .take my chance following the existing line.

Myci85

How do you know the old fence post was in the right place? Maybe the new fence was put up in a different place as at the time they decided the original fence was in the wrong place?

Unless the deeds make it very clear where the boundary should run, in which case there is presumably a higher chance any new neighbours could dispute it.

silvercar

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82158599#Comment_82158599

Exactly this. A previous owner could have put a new fence well inside their boundary and then one or other planted a hedge which grew over the fence.

We’ve spotted what could have been a sawn off fence post, within a foot of a boundary, but examining photos from when we bought it turns out to be a corner post of some, long since removed, decking.

HouseHuntingAmy

I am a house hunter rather than a neighbour in your position, so only a thought. The sensible worry I would have is the one kitrat mentions: a new fence line can start to look like the real boundary after a few years, especially if a buyer's solicitor or surveyor spots it. A short written note signed by both of you, with a photo of the old post and a measurement, would cost nothing and could save a lot I am a house hunter rather than a neighbour in your position, so only a thought. The worry I would have is the one kitrat raises: a new fence line can start to look like the real boundary after a few years, especially if a buyer's solicitor or surveyor spots it. A short written note signed by both of you, with a photo of the old post and a measurement, would cost nothing and could save bother later. Since he is selling, now is also the easiest time to settle it, because he wants a clean sale and his buyer will ask about boundaries. If it feels awkward, a short chat with a solicitor about a boundary agreement might be worth it before the border gets smaller. Hope it can be sorted amicably.of bother later. Since he is selling, now is also the easiest time to settle it, because he wants a clean sale and his buyer will ask about boundaries. If it feels awkward, a free chat with a solicitor about a boundary agreement might be worth it before the border gets smaller. Hope it can be sorted amicably.

WIAWSNB

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6685609/boundary-query

Hi Kitrat.

To answer your Q, yes of course the new owner could dispute the fence-line if they had reason to consider it was wrong.

How would they find out? Well, you never know how suspicious or pedantic they may be, so they could take measurements even if you do not. We obviously cannot tell from here how obvious, or not, the presumed slanting line is. Or, what if they, too, decide to install a patio or decking, and find their square area does not align with the fence?

As for 'what to do', I don't know. 20cm is one of these borderline measurements, depending on how wide the plot is. Many many property fences will be happily 'out' by this amount or more, and for most it makes not a jot of difference. So, how obvious is it with yours?

Are the boundaries 'regular' as far as you know; do the property maps indicate 'square' gardens - ie boundary lines running perpendicular from the house and right-angles at all corners? Since you are semi, it should be easy to determine where - exactly - the true boundary line divides your properties, and the garden boundary line then almost always begins from this. If so, then the continuation of the boundary as it leaves the property should also be straightforward to determine using basic measurements and, say, Pythagoras' whatsit, if you really wanted to. Ie, are they straight, and follow the expected lines to form a typical rectangular curtilage?

So, have you determined where - exactly - the divide line in your properties lies on the building wall? And have you taken any measurements to confirm whether the old post, or current fence, is more correct?

I think that is worth doing.

What is your current neighbour going to include in the TA6 that he should fill in accurately and honestly? Section 2 covers boundaries, and what is known about them - is he going to fib? Section 3 covers 'disputes', including anything that is known that could potentially lead to one.

I guess it may come down to how obvious the supposed error is. Would your neighb have noticed anything had they not seen the old post, for example? And, just how much hassle would it be to you to have the fence moved the 20cm, if it is determined it is currently incorrect?

Your three choices are presumably;

1. Replace the fence as it is, without confirming whether it's actually correct - just continue the status quo, and both of you keep quiet about it. Ie, your neighb fibs in the TA6, and you presumably also do so if the neighb asks you about it. Should the new neighb have enough suspicion to have the 'true' boundary determined, would you 'fess up you knew? That's a toughie - you knew there was some question over it, and kept quiet.
2. Replace the fence as it is, but your neighb adds to the TA6 that the new fence follows the decades-old line, but its accuracy has not been determined.
3. You move the fence now.

You sound like a decent fellow, so I suspect that if the new neighb takes accurate measurements/gets a surveyor in, you'd be fully accepting of their proven claim? In which case, who would pay to have it moved?

Slinky

I think our old neighbour had sliced off the corner of our front garden. It was only when we took down a garden wall at the side of the house that separated our front and back gardens, that you could see the boundary at the front was not a continuation of the straight line at the back which is what was shown on the deeds. By the time it reached the front boundary, it was probably close to a meter out. From the front, with a 5 foot wall in place, it wasn't obvious, as the boundary appeared to run parallel with the neighbour's drive. However the snaffle must have occurred 25 years before I bought the house, as the neighbour had been there since the houses were built.

We removed the wall as we extended the property to the side. We never mentioned anything to the neighbour, it wasn't worth falling out over, and nobody noticed anything when we sold the house.