Advice please, potential ill health retirement

Mistermeaner

Hi all

would appreciate advice. My previous thread with history is on here for anyone interested in details of background

long story short I have a heart condition and have been occupational health assessed as disabled and have a flexible working arrangement in place. Unfortunately my condition has worsened and I am not able to drive at the moment so have been 100% home based. Work location has been a contentious point with mgt in the past with them wanting me on site more (with one site being 3hrs drive away) so far I have been protected by flexible working arrangement although now being 100% home based is causing tension again plus company is pushing for people to be back in office more

as mentioned my condition has worsened and without boring you all with medical details my treatment is going to be ramped up with debilitating side effects and I won’t be driving any time soon (months). My doctor would be happy to give me a fit note of a month off initially and will likely extend as required

I have let hr and mgt know and am waiting an occ health review

reading company policies and my contract I have the following ;

- contract has entitlement to group income protection scheme, this pays 55% of salary (less ssp) for up to 60months

- contract has (at company discretion) company may pay up to 6months pay , once exhausted employee would receive ssp (company is currently paying a number of employees full pay while off sick so they do honour this)

- contract has right for company to terminate employment with 6 months notice

additionally the company has a policy called discretionary pay relating to ill health , which paraphrased refers a claim in event of dismissal due to ill health to a panel who can determine a discretionary payment for ill health dismissal which can variously pay between the full amount and 40% of the amount allowed under inland revenue rules

There is a very real possibility I may not be able to perform my role, particularly because of the need to be on site. 100% remote working could be feasible for me but I don’t believe the company will want this therefore termination on ill health grounds may well be a possibility here

can anyone share thoughts and experiences based on the above

my reading is I could potentially be off on full pay for 6 months, then on income protection at 55% for 60months before then being terminated with potentially discretionary payment and/or 6 months contractual notice

Of course all of this could potentially be wrapped up quicker under a settlement agreement of equivalent value?

Appreciate thoughts and input

also appreciate you have to take my word for it that I am ill would appreciate if folk assume the illness is genuine and not being fabricated for £gain thanks

Grumpy_chap

The OP's previous thread is here:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6579732/advice-required-regards-employment-situation-rights-location-of-work

GingerTim

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6684956/advice-please-potential-ill-health-retirement

Right. First of all, my commiserations - this is pretty horrible situation and I wish you and your family all the very best in dealing with this.

My first thought is that the three options in your company policy are just that, separate options for how to proceed, not that you get all three - it would be exceptionally generous if they did. First step would be to clarify that and, if they are separate options, think about which would be the best for you from a financial point of view.

Second point: do you have income protection insurance or ill health retirement insurance?

Third point: can you take your pension early if you have to? Look into the details and have a word with someone from the scheme about the financial implications of taking it/some of it early.

DRS1

You do have a conundrum with the group income protection scheme. Presumably that pays out if you are too ill to work. But you have been saying you could work if only they would allow you to do 5 days a week working from home. I don't know what sort of medical checks they do for a claim under the scheme but you should be prepared for them. It may be something to discuss with your doctors so you know how to handle any claim process in the most sensible way. Of course you may be getting medical advice now that says you are too ill to do the job at all?

I have no idea how old you are but would 60 months get you through to a time when you could start drawing your pension? Or if the group income protection scheme does not come to your aid would 6 months do it? It seems to me that on the most pessimistic view you would have 6 months notice period or pay in lieu.

I am not sure what sort of pension you have but if it is a defined contribution scheme then being able to draw the pension early because of ill health does not really help. It can be a good thing to have in a defined benefit scheme though.

Mistermeaner

hi

I’m 47

pension is 100% DC

we could get on ok with the group income cover at 55% provided it’s not capped (I’ve requested the full policy details)

I taken the next 3 days off self certified to have a good think. Interestingly these are my only full official sick days in the past 3 years. I may trigger full sign off from doctor for a month but I’m not sure what best to do

im not well but “ok” working from home as I can manage it, taking breaks when I need, lying down and setting and managing my own schedule. I am also back and to to hospital and doctors appointments 3-4 times a week at the moment

it’s an interesting one re the group protection; if I can agree 100% home working I’m prob ok to carry on, if work deem that unacceptable, even as a reasonable adjustment for a disability then the only option is dismissal on health capability grounds which then should trigger the income protection. The insurance company may argue however that I am fit to work , albeit need to be home based?

Marcon

I'm sorry you are clearly having a genuinely tough time of it. Forgive me, but I haven't ploughed through the 14 pages of your previous thread and am answering purely on the information in this thread.

It's interesting that your thread title asks for advice on potential ill health retirement, but I don't think that's actually your question at all - but for the record, if you qualify for ill health early retirement under the terms of your pension provider's scheme, then (with supporting written evidence from a registered medical practitioner) you could start to access your DC pot at any age (there's no minimum). The problem is obvious, though: what you spend now is depleting the pot which, I very much hope, you will need at some point well into the future.

Until you know the exact terms of the Income Replacement Policy, it's impossible to answer your questions with any certainty. Things to look out for when you get a copy:

• whether there is a 'waiting period' - that's the time between someone going off sick, and a claim starting to be paid under the terms of the IRP. Six months is pretty common, which could be where the company's own 6 months of discretionary sick pay comes into the picture
• how exactly the policy defines someone as qualifying for benefits under the policy. As you've pointed out, your position is less than clear cut (and you aren't alone now that hybrid working has become much more common), so you are looking for a wording in the policy covering any restrictions on your ability to work, whether claims would be honoured if you are still capable of working in a different capacity, and so on.

It’s an interesting one re the group protection; if I can agree 100% home working I’m prob ok to carry on, if work deem that unacceptable, even as a reasonable adjustment for a disability then the only option is dismissal on health capability grounds which then should trigger the income protection. The insurance company may argue however that I am fit to work , albeit need to be home based?

Beware: depending on how they are set up, group income replacement policies normally cover employees while they are in employment with the employer providing membership of their income replacement scheme. If you are dismissed, you are of course no longer an employee. Again, check what the policy says.

A conversation with HR or someone who actually knows what the company does in respect of long term sickness (not always one and the same…) is likely to be the best way forward. From the sound of it, this is a decent company which has gone to some lengths to protect its employees, so I don't think it should be a conversation to fear.

I do hope your health will improve.

DRS1

then the only option is dismissal on health capability grounds which then should trigger the income protection.

Be very very careful about that. For some of these schemes (maybe all) you stay employed by the employer - the insurer pays the employer and the employer pays you through payroll. You would need to very clear about it before assuming that the scheme would cover you if you were dismissed.

Mistermeaner

hi all thanks for input very useful

spoke with hr this morning, they confirmed company policy is up to 6 months leave at full pay, the discretionary element is in case someone just disappears rather than following process re notifications occ health review etc. I was reassured there’s no issue in my case and with my prior impeccable record everything is fine

they will send me details re income protection that I’ll need to read carefully but per above you are correct I remain technically employed by the company on their headcount etc, they have had another person on this recently as well. They advised given my circumstances they think it’s highly likely I should be eligible for this in the event that my condition does not improve and will start the application process immediately given there can be delays, their reasoning being we can always withdraw if not required

amazing if on income protection my role is essentially kept open so I can return to work at any time within the 5 years! Of course it’s likely they’ll have re-orged or variously covered my role so it’s highly likely I’d come back and then be made redundant but as pointed out above severance would not come before income protection

seems like may actually be some good news for a change, it’s very reassuring knowing I can focus on my health without worrying about the mortgage and kids at least in the short term- medium term

don’t know if anyone has dealt with a serious illness but the mental and psychological side of things is huge almost worse than physical discomfort- the times I’ve collapsed before I hit the floor it’s the kids that flash through my head not the fear of death

be thankful for what you have peeps