Leasehold flat - Window opening into garden of next flat

Albermarle

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82153528#Comment_82153528

OK, so the photo is of the front of the properties, so not really relevant to this issue?

waseem432000

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82153586#Comment_82153586

fair enough. Will label the image better and explain where the windows currently open later today when I have access to my laptop.

The image I uploaded was indeed the front of property and not related to the actual issue but the only thing I wanted to indicate that flat 3 and 4 don’t start and finish at the same place as flats 1,2 and 5,6.

eddddy

waseem432000 said

I think we are fine with privacy side of the things for the window. It’s not like you can sleep with an open window even if it opens into your personal garden so we will probably obscure the glass in the bedroom just like it’s already in the toilet.

So can you clarify what your concerns are?

Are you worried that if you open the window, the garden owner will accuse you of civil trespass?

If so, you (or your solicitor) should check the lease to make sure there is an easement allowing you to open the windows. It would be a mistake by the developer, if no easement exists.

(Flats on the first floor would have the same issue. They would be trespassing if they opened their windows without an easement.)

FWIW, if there is no easement, you could still live in the flat without opening those windows.

Or are you worried that the garden owner could put up a fence, screen, shed or hedge in front of your window?

The garden owners lease probably doesn't allow a fence, screen, shed or other structure anywhere in the garden. Hedges, large bushes etc might be a different issue. Hopefully the garden owner's lease will address all this. You probably also have a right to light.

Again, your solicitor should be able to check the lease and advise you.

waseem432000

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82153709#Comment_82153709

I think I basically wanted to see if this is a fairly common occurrence which happens in a lot of properties and if that’s going to be issue if we decide to sell the property in future.
I wouldn’t go ahead with the purchase if there are any legal issues but would it bother most people from buying a property with that kind of arrangement even if our property has legal protection via easement and lease provisions.

WIAWSNB

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82153528#Comment_82153528

Thanks - that helps a lot.

Flat 3 - 'yours' - is a 2 storey maisonette? The other four properties are also maisonettes? And the concerned gardens belong to No 1 and 5?

I'll repeat what I said before; I don't think the two issues that appeared to concern you are really issues, or are at least overcomeable.

In the very unlikely event a future owner of 1or5 complained about 'trespass', then - worst case - you could replace these two windows with types that don't.

I suggest it would be highly unlikely they'd attempt this, as it doesn't appear to be a practical issue to demonstrate in reality, so I suspect they'd have to commit a fair amount of effort and cost into the attempt, and would then most likely fail.

For example, if the windows always opened outwards - if the property was built like this - then almost certainly it has a designed easement to allow it. I noticed that the windows at the front also open outwards.

Also, I'm guessing your roof has overhanging eaves and gutters along these same sides? In which case they'd likely overhang - trespass - even further than the windows. And, again, designed in the original build.

I cannot see a successful case being made by a neighbour. If they tried, you'd let them run up £ks of bills, and then say, "Ok, I'll only open them 2", so they don't stick out beyond the wall..."

I jest - I'm suggesting they almost certainly haven't a chance, and almost certainly wouldn't even try - their solicitor would soon disabuse them.

In the extremely unlikely event they pursued this and won - I cannot see it happening - then just replace the window style - less than £1k. That's worst case scenario.

The other issue is a lack of privacy - I presume you mean to you. Again, in reality, the biggest loss of privacy is to the garden owner, as they'd be overlooked when enjoying their space. That's their problem. By that I mean they should have considered this element before buying their property. Not you.

For your lack of privacy, a situation shared to some extent by the vast majority of homeowners, you fit blinds or net curtains. Sorted.

Do not change the bedroom glass to obscure. For a start, that's very ugly indeed - just hellish - but there's potentially a 'risk' it could be subject to its own easement over time, forcing its permanence. Ie, there's no going back to clear. (No idea if that could happen, but - seriously - don't even throw that possibility out there.)

Since these windows are part of the original build, and are single windows to each room, I would also suggest they have gained whatever level of right to light that was intended and achieved. That means that a neighbour cannot screen it off in any way that significantly reduces light levels in these rooms.

Chances are, all current incumbents are happy with their lot; they sometimes enjoy their gardens, and are not bovvered - fully accept - that it ain't completely private. It's even less of an issue if you all get on - it just ain't an issue.

Problems can arise when an entitled individual becomes a new owner, with unreasonable self-serving expectations, say threatening to plant screening against the window to give them the 'right' to full privacy.

Almost certainly they can be disabused, but do add decent Legal Protection to your insurance policy, tobesuretobesure.

Due diligence - do ask these Qs of your conveyancer - but I really can't see an issue.

Nice place - I'm sure you'll be happy there 😁

waseem432000

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82154018#Comment_82154018

thanks for your detailed advice.

All 6 properties are maisonettes and flat number 4 is on the first floor and their windows also open outside into gardens as well.

I have asked my solicitor to check the details and if they don’t flag anything seriously wrong on the legal side, I think we will continue to go ahead with our purchase.

WIAWSNB

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82154405#Comment_82154405

Almost certainly the window setup is ok as it was designed that way from the off.

For instance, a clear glass first storey window would not normally be permitted on a party boundary for reasons of privacy overlook - I understand it breaches Planning, tho' perhaps that only applies to detached properties, I don't know. But in your case, it's almost certainly permitted, by easement if nothing else, as it was part of the approved design. Everyone there will be accepting of it, and it's too late to force a change even if they wanted to.

Almost certainly now't to worry about, but you are right to question it.

But please don't replace the clear bedroom glass with obscure. That's a pretty drastic move which you will likely regret, and not just because it's awful. It could also lead to issues at the time of next sale, with potential buyers finding it unacceptable and being put off (as they should...), and their wish to revert to clear glass after (or during) purchase causing hassle with neighbours who got to like it being obscured. It could even cause annoyance with the current lot of neighbours if you did this, with the still-overlooked wondering whether they can make their privacy-denying neighbours fit obscured windows too.