Euro Car Parks - Waitrose Greenwich

BBDriver

I need a bit of advice in tackling this NTK.

The car is a Motability vehicle and the leaseholder has a Blue Badge

The car was driven into the underground car park.

Parked in a disabled spot.

Shopped and returned - receipt with time stamp (kept) and parking voucher issued by Waitrose.

The car was driven towards the exit looking for a machine to use the voucher but did not go up the ramp and leave the car park.

Realising the machine was behind, the car was reversed back into a parking bay and the registration & voucher were entered into the machine.

The car left the car park.

The assumption is that the ANPR is positioned before the left hand turn to the exit ramp and the car had gone past, triggering the NTK, before reversing.

I have started with Plan A which, so far, has worked every time I have previously used it. I am waiting for a response from Waitrose, (although Galliard Homes appear to own the car park).

QUESTIONS

1 Is the NTK POFO compliant?

Paragraph 9(2)(b) - Is the invitation for the keeper to pay the fine covered by the front page or is it worth appealing this point?

Paragraph 9(2)(e) - It does not state that Euro Car Parks does not know both the driver's name and current address for service.

2 Do ANPR entry and exit times constitute a legitimate parking period?

3 Should I appeal to Euro Car Parks and request SAR info regarding the voucher/car reg entry which must have been logged in the machine albeit after the "false exit"?

This would show the vehicle had a valid voucher and receipt for the time parked.

CCTV would also show the entire episode.

Any advice from the forum would be greatly appreciated.

Nothing like sticking it to these ******* and I have no intention of paying them anything.

Woodstok2000

Q3 - Definitely worth a shot. Also, if possible, would be interesting to see exactly what the signs say about the timing of validation - there was a thread recently which referenced a contract law judgement which allowed for validation/payment to be done within a reasonable period after leaving the car park based on the wording on the sign.

BBDriver

Thanks for the heads up on the contract law judgement thread, I'll have a trawl through the forum and see if I can find it.

I intend go and photograph the car park signs, entry and exit points and general layout. I'll post anything of interest here.

BBDriver

Here's some pictures of the car park.

1 No signage at the entrance - BPA

2 First sign - once in the car park with no way to exit without going past ANPR cameras

3 Second sign with conditions that were followed

4 Disabled Bay used. - T&Cs obscured from drivers seat by Reserved for blue badge holders" sign

5 Height of sign

6 Taken close up and some writing is still unreadable

7 Vehicle stopped on the left of the silver bollard before reversing into a parking spot to find a pay machine. ANPR cameras are directly behind the vehicle

8 ANPR cameras positioned behind the vehicle before the EXIT

9 Sign showing EXIT to the left. This exit sign and the exit are after the ANPR cameras have triggered

10 Exit Ramp after turning left

Waitrose have been useless both in-store and customer services via email. Said they do not own the car park and cannot cancel the PCN as they only issue the QR code voucher.

Complaint to Galliard Estate Management Ltd next and then submit an appeal to Euro Car Parks.

Any advice/opinion is more than welcome especially regarding POFA compliance

James_Poisson

I think you are mixing up ANPR and CCTV cameras. Where you have ringed what you think are ANPR are actually CCTV and from your description would have captured the rear of the car, the NTK shows the exit ANPR camera has an image of the front of the car.

The exit ANPR camera is this one which would be positioned to capture the front plate as you leave:

I actually think this is a keying error, and they being scammers are just reporting it as a non payment, it surely could not have taken 18 minutes to reverse up and input the details with the voucher.

From the details given I would agree that Waitrose probably don't have any say in cancelling these charges but that's no reason to pay it.

BBDriver

Thanks James - You're right, I didn't spot the other camera.

I'll request CCTV footage from Galliard Estate Management for evidence.

The 18 minutes were from entering, shopping then stopping just past the ANPR camera.

After this the reversing took place, QR code used and then driving to the exit.

There should be a third ANPR capture after about 20 mins which they have ignored.

SacredStephan

tom.denyard@johnlewis.co.uk

BBDriver

This is the appeal I was thinking of sending Euro Car Parks.

Should I include the fact that the ANPR reader is positioned well before the car park exit or should that kind of arguement be saved for POPLA appeal?

Subject: Appeal against Parking Charge Notice

This Parking Charge Notice is disputed on the basis that the vehicle complied with the parking requirements.

1. The vehicle entered the car park. There was no parking signage on entering, as required by the BPA Code of Practice.
2. The vehicle was parked in a disabled bay with a valid Blue Badge displayed. The parking signage was not readable from a driver's position. The payment machines are also not visible from either the lift exit or the disabled bay used.
3. After shopping at Waitrose, a QR code supplied by Waitrose was provided along with the receipt confirming a spend exceeding the required £10.
4. The shopper returned directly to the vehicle after shopping for mobility reasons.
5. The vehicle was then driven towards the exit to locate a machine at which to use the QR code. Having reached a sign reminding to pay and with no payment machine visible, the vehicle was reversed into a parking bay. The vehicle did not exit the car park.
6. The payment machines were located on foot. The QR code was scanned and the vehicle registration was entered and accepted by the system. The vehicle then drove to the exit and left the car park.

There should therefore be an electronic record confirming that the QR code was used and that the vehicle registration was accepted covering the parking event.

The ANPR cameras also appear to be positioned before the left-hand turn required to reach the exit, as indicated by the EXIT signage. The vehicle may consequently have triggered the ANPR camera before reaching the actual exit. There should be a further ANPR record showing the vehicle subsequently travelling towards and leaving through the exit.

A Subject Access Request will be made for the relevant ANPR images, timestamps, vehicle registration records and the electronic record of the QR-code transaction.

In view of the above, the Parking Charge Notice should be cancelled. If the appeal is rejected, please provide the complete ANPR evidence and the electronic records relating to the QR-code transaction and vehicle registration.

Coupon-mad

"There should be a third ANPR capture after about 20 mins which they have ignored."

Require Euro to supply all images of this Motability car that day and remind them of their Equality Act 2010 duty to make reasonable adjustments: in this case to recognise that the driver did comply before leaving, and cancel the PCN which should never have been issued if they'd bothered with human checks of all images.

BBDriver

I went to appeal and it seems the invoice has been cancelled. I took a screenshot and double checked by trying to pay, the same result - they have cancelled it.

Not sure why, could be Waitrose forwarded my complaint or they manually checked the images at a later date.

Half a mind to complain about accessing my data without proper cause.

Still a win is a win however it comes. 5- 0 to me right now.

I love this forum and the help it provides

Gr1pr

You should now send your complaint, with evidence, to the CMA