High Party Wall fees

Everyman137

Hi

I have a project to demolish & reconstruct an old, falling down, outbuilding which borders 1 neighbour. The cost for the Party Wall surveyors (we have to pay for 3 as a leasehold property) has come in at over £9000 !

The expected costs were originally less than £3k - assuming that we would have to pay for 2 surveyors. My surveyor originally quoted £1100 for their fee.

I will attempt to keep this as brief as possible.

We thought we were doing the best thing to avoid any issues with the neighbour (AO). We did attempt to seek an agreement with them directly, especially as they had their own project which borders our build, but after they had objected to the planning permission we were not surprised when they rejected that idea. They took the decision to appoint their own (expensive) surveyor at our cost. The neighbour then proceeded to make things as difficult as possible, mainly by delaying everything, which meant the site visit by their own surveyor did not take place for approx 4 months.

The AO surveyor has been very poor at communication, which has meant our surveyor has spent more time on the award than expected. I requested the AO surveyors fees on multiple occasions - he eventually replied with a statement which I thought was incredibly suspicious… 'my fee is £175 per hour, but it is not my intention to overcharge for anything unnecessary'.

Eventually the site visit happened and the 3 surveyors, including the Freehold appointed surveyor had an online meeting to review. They came to the conclusion that most of the boundary was wholly on our land and therefore subject to a section 1 notification. One small element (the neighbours outside toilet) was deemed to be party wall. As demolition of the main structure would mean that this toilet would be unsafe the neighbour agreed in writing that this could be demolished, with a view to it being rebuilt as part of the main structure.

By this point, and as the party wall surveyors were taking so long, the adjoining owner then decided to agree in writing that the builders could start, as long as access was granted to their builders. This involves a small swap of land which is mutually beneficial and means that there is no longer an outside toilet to be rebuilt, thus removing the party wall element.

So the Party Wall Award that we have been waiting for over 6 months is now essentially not applicable to the agreed build. We still do not have the award - the surveyor is agreeing to release this once we have paid.

I recognise that all 3 surveyors have carried out work on the project and would therefore demand payment, but I have queried the extremely high costs. Yes, the project has been delayed, due to the AO restricting access to the site, but I'm not sure that means that costs should increase.

My main queries are;

• Could our surveyor have done more to ensure that the award was made in a timely manner, therefore reducing costs ? E.g. by referring to a 3rd surveyor, or in our case 4th surveyor. I requested this on numerous occasions after taking advice from the Faculty of Party Wall Surveyors.
• Did we need to appoint a 3rd surveyor to cover the Freeholder, or was that unnecessary?
• Is it reasonable for surveyors to charge more based on time delays, rather than more work - I fail to understand how this means that costs are higher than quoted.

The more I read into how the Party Wall process works, the more I think it is a total scam.

The process encourages the AO (the neighbour) to find the most expensive surveyor they can, and to delay as long as possible, if their intention is slow down / or stop a project. Then the surveyors themselves are marking their own homework on whether fees are reasonable.

Thanks!

eddddy

It might be useful to ask the surveyors to provide a breakdown of their costs, timesheet hours, etc

As I understand it, you can challenge excessive fees, you can instruct another surveyor to check the fees, or go to court.

As this random surveyor explains:

In almost all cases, the building owner — the person carrying out the works — pays the party wall surveyor fees for both parties. This includes their own surveyor's fees and the reasonable fees of any surveyor appointed by or on behalf of the adjoining owner.

This is a legal requirement under the Party Wall etc. Act 1996, not a commercial arrangement. The adjoining owner does not pay. The only exception is where an adjoining owner makes unreasonable demands or appoints a surveyor unnecessarily — in which case the third surveyor or a court can apportion costs differently

Link: https://christopheranthony.org.uk/party-wall-faqs/

But just to double check, you mention the "freeholder's surveyor"…

• Was that person acting as a party wall surveyor instructed by the freeholder of the neighbouring property?

• Or was that person acting as a building surveyor instructed by the freeholder of your property, in relation to granting consent for you to demolish and reconstruct?

If it's the second option, the process for challenging the charges would be very different.

(It may be that the freeholder of the neighbouring property and the freeholder of your property is the same person, so it would depend on the basis on which they were instructed).

Everyman137

Thanks Eddddy

Yes I have requested time sheets, but again this feels like each surveyor marking their own homework. For example some of the time entries just say be email to x, or review query from y. I have no way of knowing if this did happen, or if it needed to.

My reference to freeholder was your first option - a party wall surveyor instructed by the freeholder of neighbouring property.

The more I have read up on the Party Wall process, the more I feel as though it is unregulated.

During one conversation with my surveyor they commented 'my worry is that the AO surveyor is delaying things to build up his fee'.

The communication was very poor throughout. At no point did any of the surveyors communicate to me that costs would increase.