Euro Car Parks - DCBL - Sainsbury's Car Park

shock1513

Hello,

I've been battling Euro Car Parks (ECP) and Direct Collection Bailiffs Limited (DCBL) for almost 4 months now, just found this forum and realised I may have been doing it wrong. Not sure what to do next and hoping for some advice.

Not very short, summary of what has happened:

I "overstayed the maximum time period allowed" after business hours of a Sainsbury's car park, about 4 months ago. This was maybe my second time at this Sainsbury's and they have a huge sign stating "Maximum Stay 3 hours" and with a tiny thin font it says underneath "10 minutes after business hours". This occured at 10.30pm it was dark, I could only see the big bold "3 hours" so assumed it was fine, none of the signs are illuminated, and its a 30mph road, so good luck reading tiny thin writing. I received a fine from ECP and appealed it instantly as I - at the time - didn't realise there was a 10min maximum. They have rejected this appeal and sent me a picture of the sign in broad daylight showing the 2nd point. They also reduced the fine, and for peace of mind I have paid this fine. Thought "whatever", not going there again.

A week (or maybe two) after the appeal (probably a month since the 'incident'), I received a letter from DCBL claiming they have been instructed to collect an outstanding balance of £155 that stated the client to be ECP. I instantly called them told them that I've paid already and was asked to email my evidence. I sent both the letter from ECP and a recipt of payment to DCBL. They have rejected my evidence and asked for a bank statement. I've provided a HEAVILY redacted bank statement showing payment to ECP. They yet again declined my evidence and stated that they will continue with the collection. I emailed them back that they can't ignore my evidence, when they clearly show the payment has been made.

This went on for a while, until last week when I recieved a letter from DCBL that they have "advised their client to proceed with legal action". Its here that I double, even triple checked all the letters I've received from DCBL and ECP. Its here that I found out that ECP has issued me 2 tickets not 1. They have sent me a letter about the first one, and I never received the second one. The PCN numbers are identical, I mean 2 numbers in the middle are different, at a quick glance they are identical. We are talking 2 instead of 3 kind of difference. Plus I was never aware of the second ticket, so when I received a letter from DCBL about a ECP ticket, I automatically assumed it must be the one I already paid - logically.

I raise this point with DCBL that all this time I've been sending them evidence about a different PCN why haven't they said from the start "hey this is a different ticket" - which i wrote a formal complaint to DCBL about but I doubt they will do anything about it, I digress. I then explained about the discrepancy and that I've never received the 2nd letter, and if they can send me the PCN letter that ECP claims to have sent me.

Today I got that letter, according to the parking charge I "overstayed the maximum"… blah blah blah… The kicker though, by "0 hours and 0 minutes". There's no entry time, only exit time, dated about 10 days after the first ticket. The first ticket had a entry time and exit time and clearly stating I've over stayed by "1 hour and 0 minutes". This one doesn't. There's a picture of my plate on both the entry and exit section, but no time. Did i enter that day? No idea this was now 4 months ago. If DCBL from the first email just said "its the wrong PCN mate", I probably would have remembered if I did or didn't. But I dont remember if and why I was in Sainburys around 10pm that day.

That being said, I've emailed DCBL stating all the above, and informed them that I've never recieved it. I also told them that I've been trying to solve this from the moment I got the letter and they just rejecting every single email and not even explaining why just a "nope, gonna continue, whoopsies". They replied with essentially they aren't here to solve the dispute or resolve my appeal they just here to collect because their client asked them to. Well ECP has no public communication channel, and trying to appeal on their website says "talk to DCBL".

So i can't talk to ECP, i have to talk to DCBL but DCBL will not talk to me about the case because they not here to get involved? Yes, sounds good. So dont talk back and just pay up £155. Cool.

So that's where I am now. DCBL doesn't care that I received two PCNs, and will not "get involved" in the appeal or communication with ECP, I have no way of communicating with ECP to resolve this differently, DCBL is threatening me with legal action, and DCBL also takes no responsibility for the last 3 months of unhelpful and threatening communications which could've gone differently with just a "this is a different PCN mate".

tldr;

2 parking charges, about 2 weeks apart, one I got a letter for (appealed, got rejected and paid the reduced amount), one I didn't get a letter for but got DCBL collection letter for, and have been battling them to try and resolve it for around 2-3 months now.

I guess my question is, do I just wait for the Letter of Claim and try to appeal it there? or should I suck it up and pay the £155?

I apologise for any grammar or punctuation issues, writing this after 4 months of stress and now a legal threat, make my blood boil.

Half_way

First of all, if they have not complied with the protection of freedoms act you shoud not attempt to ientify the driver, never use terms like I did this, or even He/she/uncal/aunt/son/daughter etc

shock1513

I've not admited liability at any point. I've not said anything about being there, or me driving. All the language thus far has been that I'm disputing this penalty and I continously repeated that I've not been given an opportunity to appeal the second PCN. I've not admitted to anything which I've actually even said to them multiple times. I've purposely targetted the penalty not the incident in my communications.

SacredStephan

Have you contacted Sainsburys Head Office - Executive Complaints?

shock1513

I've not contacted Sainsbury's at all. Since the car park is operated by Euro Car Parks I assumed they wont be much of help and will direct me to talk to ECP (who dont want to talk to me and direct me to DCBL…)

This was outside of business hours. So Sainsbury's was closed at the time - judging by their second ticket's exit time both would have been outside of business hours. Not sure if they can help if I wasn't a customer during that time.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Jame4ters

Plan A is always to complain to the landowner in this case that’s likely to be Sainsburys.

If they try to fob you off then point out that they can cancel.

Don’t bother trying to speak to ECP or DCBL

The bottom line is that you won’t be paying as the signage is the key issue and it’s unlikely to get to a hearing

yarpsnehpets

The ECP NtK is not PoFA compliant so the keeper can never be found liable.

Make sure the driver is never revealed in any way.

shock1513

Right, thanks for that.

How should I go about that? Do I just stop communicating with DCBL and wait for a Letter of Claim where I can appeal? since ECP refuses to communicate with me. So its not like I can appeal or raise that PoFA point to them.

Gr1pr

Correct, play the waiting game, especially because its easier to deal with a future Money Claim

Coupon-mad

Of course you can't 'appeal' to DCB Legal!

Just wait for the claim and play the game until they discontinue.