Local Council SAR Request Refusal to Provide Correct Information

Robbie64

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82117673#Comment_82117673

It seems as if the letters are dated to when they were produced after the SAR had been requested and actioned. This would be a clear breach of GDPR 2018 as the dates of each of the letters should match when the original letter was produced.

It looks as if the letters are being dated using a dynamic lookup date feature that is usually found in the likes of Word. It automatically inserts today's date into a document when it is opened. At a guess, the council is using a live document template system which is inserting the then current date the document was opened when generating the bundle in response to the SAR. This shouldn't be happening when producing documents requested under SAR. The letters should be exact copies of the original letters, including the date the letter was originally issued.

Newcad

I see a similar dating issue if I download old energy bills; but it doesn't really matter.

It shows the "Date generated" at the top of the bill, which is the date I download it - however in the body of the bill it shows the dates that the bill is for.

As an example I've just downloaded this one from September 2025.

You can see that it has today's date at the top as today is the date that it was generated, but the actual dates that the bill is for are clearly shown in the body itself.

Is this the type of thing that you are seeing in you SAR replies?

ASmallBeanToe

Yes that is exactly what has happened. They've even been provided as a bunch of word documents that I can still edit.

It's a double issue for me because a long standing problem I have had with my council is them fabricating communications and denying ones that exist. A number of these letters I have never received before and they contain some pretty important stuff (Like a letter apologising for sending me court summons because they had wrongly allocated my council tax payments. That was a fun week.)

They're refusing to admit the dates are all edited and are STILL saying I'm looking at metadata and that the dates on the letters are correct.

They've said that the letters were provided because they were in the time frame given for the SAR and I'm like, why do you think that's what I'm complaining about? Do you think I'm telling you you gave me too many records? Do you think I'm asking you to come delete them off my computer?

Edit: No, it is not a date generated type line. If you look at any generic formal letter, they have a date on the right side, below the address of the sender and above the line where the letter starts "Dear Ms Beans,". It's this date - which is used to indicate when correspondence was written, that is wrong across the board.

Robbie64

I'm assuming the council should have something on the computer system that lists when each letter was originally issued. While not the same, I've requested SAR's from the DWP in the past and there is a screen dialogue and as a result, a SAR print out which lists all correspondence with a date of issue. I would like to think that councils have a similar setup of which letters were issued when. Without it the council wouldn't be able to state with any certainty when a letter was produced / sent.

MyRealNameToo

A SAR request is about DATA not Documents, it sounds like, like many organisations, they dont actually store copies of the letters they sent you… I've worked in many companies that dont but to try and appease you they have sent you a new render of the original letter which will pick up certain things dynamically… like the example above I found with our council adding my wife to our council tax account and then regenerating the previous letters got them addressed to both of us not just myself as the original would have been.

What previous companies have stored, and is the data you can have, is not the actual letter but a code for the template and potentially further codes for optional paragraphs being included. They will be using this to regenerate the letters.

Personally would ask them to confirm if the letters provided were regenerations (as it appears) or archived copies. Secondly to provide a copy of the communications log from their systems along with a key so you can workout which template is which letter.

Assuming they are a regeneration I would also be asking them to definitively confirm that the version of the template used is consistent with the version originally used. Finally also ask them to confirm which elements of the letter are dynamic beyond the date and therefore which may not match the original copy.

ASmallBeanToe

That's good advice thank you so much for those, I'd never have stumbled across that info on my own.

I am currently running up against the issue of the council stating very adamantly that these dates are the dates the letters were written and that when I say any dates are incorrect I am looking at metadata. If I can fight past that I will put those requests to them.

They have told me three times to stop looking at the "date modified" and "date downloaded" and instead read the body of the letter. When I showed them the body of the letters, and how they were all the same, and how I have an original that shows the actual date, they initially refused to respond. I had to chase them up a few days later and they said they dont see the problem and resumed telling me that I should stop looking at metadata.

The level they fail at is almost unbelievable. And it's a combination malice and stupidity - on one occasion they wrongly put me through to collections and promised to put a hold on it while I sorted out what the hell was going on. They failed to put the hold on, then claimed I'd never requested one. I forwarded them their own emails to me promising it and they than said they had finished their investigation and found it hadnt happened and would not be looking further. It was one of the things the ombudsman pulled them up on and they had to admit that they had internally realised they hadnt done it the day I made the complaint and then decided not to admit it unless forced.

Feel like I'm losing my mind here but I really, really appreciate people offering advice. It's so nice to have people actually be useful and explain things for once after the hell this council have put me through.

huckster

Just exhaust a complaint about the issues (not the SAR) with Council and go to Local Government Ombudsman.

ASmallBeanToe

Edit: If you mean exhaust the complaints procedure about the information, I cant currently get my council to even lodge this as a complaint.

I will in the end, because my council only runs on oversight bodies having a go at them. I actually have an email from them where they say they dont correct mistakes even when they've identified them for money saving reasons. The fact Im not paraphrasing or interpreting something there really feels like something a local council isnt supposed to do or say.

Blancmang25

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82118976#Comment_82118976

Every Local Authority must have a formal complaints policy. You must have done a previous complaint to have got the Local Government Ombudsman involved previously.

Out of curiosity does the LA use a 3rd party to administer the Council Tax?

Also as I tried to explain previously, the original letters/correspondence will be on the system, these cannot be altered but it will depend on how they are extracting the information.

Have you got access to your Council Tax account online?

If you do you can download all the correspondence they have sent to you, the correspondence will be the exact letters that have been previously sent to you with the actual dates the document/letter were produced.

ASmallBeanToe

Yes I did - I know they have a complaints procedure. This time, I said I wanted to lodge a complaint and they stopped responding. When I chased them up they said they couldnt understand what the issue was and what I expected them to do. I repeated I wanted to make a formal complaint and they stopped responding early this wek.

They do council tax in house.

I have understood what you've said about correspondence. SHOULD and DID are not the same, and you cannot presume with my LA. They are definitely storing things as still auto-updating word documents, and using that to answer me regardless of whatever else they have. Even if they do have anything else they're currently denying there's a good reason to look.

This council once messed something up on my account in June and put me down as not having paid council tax. They refused to look into it, and stopped responding to me in June. In September I reported this to the ombudsman where I already had a complaint open about something completely unrelated. The ombudsman allow it to be appended even though it hadn't been through the complaints procedure because I could demonstrate the council just wouldnt respond. As part of their response the council said they stopped responding because I had reported it to the ombudsman.

You have to understand that these people are useless to a point that underscores the line about how after a while, stupidity is indistinguishable from malice. They just dont care and say whatever they want and see what sticks to the wall.

I do have an online council account and the correspondence is almost empty. It contains none of these items. The section of things I've sent to them is completely empty. This is just another thing they dont manage or update appropriately.

As I said, Im going to follow the advice offered and get the best that I can from the results.