Conservatory ceiling insulation

woodpecker

Can anyone clear this up for me? We had ceiling insulation installed below the polycarbonate roof of our conservatory 4 years ago. We did not get this signed off by Building Control as it was not raised and we didn't know it was necessary.

Now we are selling our house and the buyer's survey says we have changed the roof so it is no longer translucent, and therefore it should have been signed off.

We disagree but are we correct? I have done lots of online research which suggests that as long as the roof is translucent, we've got nothing to worry about.

grumpy_codger

I'm no expert, but ceiling insulation makes the roof non-translucent, doesn't it?

That said, I agree that the rule based on translucency is absolutely stupid (like many other rules in our country). E.g. painted glass or policarbonate stops being translucent.

FreeBear

As the work was done ~4 years ago, the council is likely to be out of time to serve any enforcement notices. After April 2024, the time limit increased to 10 years, but your alterations predate the change so the old rules apply.

An indemnity policy is usually recommended for historical works that do not of Building Control sign off. Often enough to satisfy buyers, and more importantly, their mortgage provider.

woodpecker

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82114115#Comment_82114115

It does. If I were being pedantic, I would argue the roof panels are still translucent, they just have a layer below them which isn't!

I read something on another thread on the forum today, which said:

"'Conservatories' have always been exempt from Bldg Regs (and still are) where they are separated from the main house by an external grade door, and are less than 30 sq.m. Pre 2006, they had to have at least 50% of external walls as glazing and at least 75% of roof as glazing/translucent to qualify - this definition was taken out of the Bldg Regs from 2010, which allowed companies to start selling retrofit solutions for conservatory roofs. Up to 2010, the installation of a solid roof would have voided the classification of the space as a 'conservatory', and would have required Bldg Regs certification for the works."

I'd be interested to hear other's opinions on this.

WIAWSNB

I agree with you. That seems very clear.

I presume it's still separated from the house by external doors? In which case it's a connie/summerhouse.

Sil is due to have a timber room added to the back of her house, spanning the existing patio doors there. It'll have two windows, french doors, and a solid flat roof. No BC issue at all.

The buyer's survey has picked up on this supposed issue, but what does the actual buyer say? It's their call whether to be concerned about what the survey picks up, so ask them via either the EA or your conveyancing solicitor - 'are you bovvered, given that nothing at all will become of it?' Give them the info you have found, and ask them if they want you to rip down the inside ceiling. If they do, you'll do it after contracts have been exchanged.

ComicGeek

There are 2 technical documents produced by LABC on this issue

https://www.ribblevalley.gov.uk/downloads/file/1491/labc-guidance-on-solid-roofs-to-conservatories

https://www.doncaster.gov.uk/Documents/DocumentView/Stream/Media/Default/Planning/Documents/technical%20view%20labc.pdf

The first document dated 1st August 2013 states that:

"When work is carried out that significantly reduces the proportion of glazing, or level of translucence to the roof, the conservatory or porch can no longer be considered exempt."

Installing insulation to the underside of the polycarbonate roof would reduce the level of translucence, and therefore technically be treated as a renovation of a thermal element under Bldg Regs. The main issue is that poor detailing/installation is likely to lead to issues with interstitial condensation, and other issues with damp, mould growth, accelerated material breakdown etc, so Building Control wanted to be involved in the process, particularly in a market sector full of cowboys and con artists….

The surveyor has to point it out, that's their job. You can negotiate with your buyers about who pays for the indemnity policy if needed.

woodpecker

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82114241#Comment_82114241

The buyer is a first-time buyer and therefore apparently very nervous that the Council will tell them to take the ceiling down (how the Council would know about it is a good question!)

The conservatory meets all of the other requirements about size/heating/external doors etc., and the work was done 4 years ago. We are satisfied that the work was done well and there are no signs of stress to the structure or any signs of damp.

Obviously the surveyor has pointed out the issue because in their opinion it should have been certified (as per ComicGeek's comment above). I think the buyer is unnecessarily concerned and we would offer an indemnity policy.

WIAWSNB

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82114419#Comment_82114419

I think, for the reasons you mention, that the indemnity policy (these are now fired out like a spinning bog-roll with most sales) will be cheap, and therefore worth it, if it's what's required.

Lawdie - I mean, if the worst that could happen - which it never will - is that they need to remove the insulated layer, then wow, 1st-world problem, and pass me the 'ammer.

Bonkers, but hey. 😊

Good luck with the sale.

stuart45

They are cheap because it's past the time for an enforcement notice. In theory, Building Control can still apply to the High Court for enforcement which has no time limit, so lenders seem to still like the policy. In most cases they aren't going to bother, so it's easy money for the insurance company.

Section62

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82114559#Comment_82114559

The concerns listed by ComicG are 'technically', pedantically, relevant, but in reality, not. The roof structure in a connie involves aluminium rafters and polycarbonate glazing panels - neither are going to rust, corrode, or buckle under a potential layer of mould, which just ain't going to occur in any case.

It is bonkers.

Personally if I were looking for advice I'd go with what the techinical experts who draw up LABC guidance say, rather than the views of someone on the internet.

The WORST case scenario here, which will almost certainly not occur, is that the 'ceiling' needs taking down at some point. Which it won't. But,
if it does, it'll take one hour.

For me the "worst case" is probably the risk of exposure to mould spores from unseen mould growing between the upper surface of the insulation and the original roof. You won't know it is there unless you take the insulation down to inspect from time to time. And the combination of translucent roof panels just above a layer of insulation gives possibly the ideal situation to generate a convection current to waft air over the mould and carry spores down into the room below.

The health and welfare of myself and the people I care about matters enough to me that I take the advice of experts over what well-meaning but sometimes misinformed internet folk think.

If the requirements of the building regs are complied with, and LABC advice followed, I help avoid risks I don't fully understand or may never have thought could exist.

TELLIT01

If the buyers survey has picked it up as a potential issue, it does matter as it may affect the mortgage offer.