Hire Vehicle - Carflow Won't Recognise Hirer

ali4390

I am happy to concede when I'm wrong, you are all the experts here.

Thanks for the steer, it's much appreciated. I've replied to Carflow with an email along those lines.

ali4390

I've now received the following from Carflow after I advised them I was driving so that they would stop chasing the registered keeper who hired me the vehicle.

Thank you for contacting Carflow.

We note that you have now confirmed that you were the driver at the time of the parking event. The previous correspondence did not identify you as the driver. It only identified you as the hirer and specifically stated:

“This email should not be taken as any admission regarding the identity of the driver.”

A Notice to Driver has now been posted on 16-Sep-26, with an issue date of 18-Sep-26.

The Haven Banks, Exeter car park is open 24 hours a day, Monday-Sunday. The parking tariff rates at this site are as follows:

Up to 1 hour - £2.10

Up to 2 hours - £3.60

Up to 3 hours - £4.70

Up to 4 hours - £5.90

Max stay 4 hours.

As our records show you stayed for a total of 1 hour and 17 minutes which required you to pay the £3.60 tariff relating to a stay of up to 2 hours. As such, the 1 hour tariff purchased is insufficient to cover your parking event.

Given the nature of an automated, ANPR car park and the fact that we do not operate any CCTV within the car park, parking events are calculated solely on entry time and exit time. Please note the following from our signage: “Tariff is based on stay time. Please note your entry time to correctly calculate your tariff. FULL, correct vehicle registration is required when paying.” Please find the ANPR photographs attached for your reference.

To clarify, a driver does not enter a contract when they pay for parking at this site. Our signs state the following: “By parking, waiting or otherwise remaining on this private land, motorists enter into a contract with Carflow Ltd and agree to comply with the terms and conditions as set out on this notice (“The Parking Contract”), including making payment and entering your vehicle registration data via payment machines, mobile phone, telephone, internet browser and/or terminals as required.” Therefore, the driver entered into a contract when they entered the car park.

The private parking sector single Code of Practice requires a minimum 10-minute grace period after a parking event before issuing a PCN. In this case the parking event started at 16:20 and ended at 17:38. As this vehicle stayed in this car park for a duration of 1 hour and 17 minutes, taking account of the minimum grace period advised by the Code of Practice, a Parking Charge Notice was correctly issued.

Carflow provides a consideration period for motorists to review the terms and decide whether to enter into a contract. If a motorist leaves during this period, they are not liable for parking charges. While we do not disclose the duration of this period, we confirm this stay exceeded it.

As a gesture of goodwill we are willing to extend the discounted payment period by 14 days from the date of this correspondence. Therefore, payment can still be made at the discounted rate of £60 until 02-Oct-26. Payment must be made within 28 days (by 16-Oct-26). If payment is delayed beyond 16-Oct-26, an administrative charge may be added for late payment and debt recovery or court action may be taken. Additional costs may also be incurred as a result of debt recovery or court action.

You have now reached the end of our internal appeals procedure. You now have two options; you can either pay or appeal to POPLA, the independent appeals service. You cannot do both. If you feel you have not been given a fair decision from Carflow you have the right to appeal to POPLA. Your POPLA appeal code can be found at the beginning of this correspondence. You must appeal to POPLA within 28 days of this rejection notice. The quickest and easiest way to submit your appeal to POPLA is online at www.popla.co.uk. If you appeal to POPLA within the discounted payment period, you will lose the opportunity to pay at the discounted rate. POPLA's latest annual report notes a 45% appeal success rate for motorists. In contrast Carflow maintains a 94% success rate at POPLA.

From reading the newbies thread, it looks as though my next course of action is to submit a long appeal through POPLA, is that correct?

yarpsnehpets

No. You are now waiting for the new PCN to arrive.

The response which they have sent is not entirely correct.

They state, Therefore, the driver entered into a contract when they entered the car park.

That is not true. According to the latest CMA open letter, the driver only enters a contract when they choose to make payment thereby agreeing to the contract - the contract starts at the moment of that agreement and not at the time the driver enters the car park.

The new PCN will give you the chance to appeal.

ali4390

Given they mention that I have now run out of appeals, I assumed they wouldn't send a PCN. I replied to a previous email they sent to the registered keeper with the following:

I am writing regarding PCN reference 2000105498, relating to a parking event on 28 June 2026.

I confirm that I was the driver of the vehicle at the material time. I understand this has already been communicated to you by the registered keeper.

I note your position that the statutory documentation required under Schedule 4, paragraph 13(2) of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 was not provided within the applicable 28-day period, and that keeper liability has therefore attached. I am not disputing that point or asking you to revisit it. This correspondence is entirely separate from that issue.

I am raising, for the first time, a dispute regarding the validity of the underlying charge itself, which I understand has not yet been considered as part of any appeal to date.

Grounds of appeal:

1. ANPR timing does not reflect actual parking duration. Your charge is based on an ANPR-recorded period from vehicle entry to vehicle exit of the site. This is not the same as the time the vehicle was actually parked in a bay. It necessarily includes time spent locating a suitable space, and time spent returning to and exiting the vehicle to the car park exit. Given the vehicle in question is a motorhome, this transit time is materially longer than for a standard car, due to its size and manoeuvring requirements.

2. Grace and consideration period, per the CMA's recent findings. I paid for parking from 16:37 to 17:37 — a 60-minute session. The recorded overstay is 17 minutes. I would draw your attention to the Competition and Markets Authority's letter to the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government [https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6a5765a62cbe5d1c179a652d/A_letter_sent_by_the_CMA_to_the_Ministry_of_Housing__Communities_and_Local_Government.pdf], which specifically addresses this practice. The CMA found that where operators calculate site time using ANPR entry and exit timestamps, the 5-minute consideration period is often wrongly subsumed within the parking period, effectively starting the clock at the moment of entry rather than the moment a decision to park is made. The CMA states that operators should not issue a PCN until at least 15 minutes after the conclusion of the parking period, combining the Industry Code's 5-minute consideration period and 10-minute grace period.

Applying that combined 15-minute standard, my genuine overstay reduces to approximately 2 minutes — a figure well within the bounds of legitimate exit transit time for a motorhome of this size, once the time taken to walk back to the vehicle, board, and manoeuvre out of the site is properly accounted for.

3. Request for evidence. Please provide: (a) the ANPR entry and exit timestamps recorded for this vehicle; (b) confirmation of the grace and consideration periods applied at this site under your terms and the Industry Code; and (c) how "period of parking" is defined in your terms and conditions for the purposes of calculating an overstay.

I would ask that this be treated as a first appeal on these specific grounds, as they have not previously been raised or considered in your prior correspondence, which addressed only the POFA keeper-liability procedure.

If you do not uphold this appeal, please provide the POPLA verification code for this PCN, along with confirmation of the date from which the 28-day POPLA appeal period runs. I understand POPLA's own rules permit an appeal to be brought by the driver, and I intend to pursue that route if necessary.

For the avoidance of doubt, nothing in this email should be taken as an admission that the parking charge is valid, or that I accept liability for it.

I reserve all rights and grounds of appeal, including any not raised in this correspondence.

Coupon-mad

I'd report Carflow to the CMA for saying this to you, over two months after the consumer protection regulator published their Open Letter* telling the industry not to count 'parking' time from arrival past the camera:

"To clarify, a driver does not enter a contract when they pay for parking at this site. Our signs state the following: “By parking, waiting or otherwise remaining on this private land, motorists enter into a contract with Carflow Ltd and agree to comply with the terms and conditions as set out on this notice (“The Parking Contract”), including making payment and entering your vehicle registration data via payment machines, mobile phone, telephone, internet browser and/or terminals as required.” Therefore, the driver entered into a contract when they entered the car park".

* Have you Googled it and read all the CMA's July letters about unfair terms and lack of fair consideration periods in private car parks yet?

Read all the CMA statements first.

This was on BBC News and on MSE itself:

MSE article: July 2026

The Competition and Markets Authority (CMA) launched a major crackdown on the UK private parking industry, issuing an open warning over unfair appeals, and advising stricter government oversight CMA takes action on private parking practices.

Please, could you take the time to read the news about the above and then email the CMA with the above points - and attach your PCN and also the rejection letter to you where they repeated the unfair term that the CMA has told the industry not to apply. Ask the CMA why Carflow seem to think they are above the law.

CMA Contact emails (use both, the first one goes directly to their parking investigation) :

• parking@cma.gov.uk
• general.enquiries@cma.gov.uk 

The CMA don't help with cases.

This is for the public good. You are reporting this to try to get the CMA to investigate Carflow, to make them stop this sort of scam operation in future and maybe even to fine them.

DO NOT TRY A POPLA APPEAL.

DO NOT PAY.

DO NOT ENGAGE WITH CARFLOW EXCEPT TO TELL THEM YOU HAVE SHOWN THE CMA THEIR LETTER WHERE THEY CONTINUE TO SPIN THE UNFAIR TERM WHICH FAILS TO ALLOW A FAIR TIME (TEN MINUTES WOULD BE FAIR ON ARRIVAL) TO ACCOUNT FOR THE EXTRA TIME NEEDED IN A PAY TO PARK SITE, TO NOT ONLY FIND A SPACE AND PARK BUT ALSO TO ACTUALLY PAY.

THE NON-CONSUMER-FRIENDLY RESPONSE MISLEADS RECIPIENTS THAT THE CONTRACT STARTS ON ARRIVAL PAST THE CAMERA WHEN THE REGULATOR HAS STATED IT DOES NOT.

TELL THEM TO START COMPLYING WITH CONSUMER PROTECTION LAW AND YOU'LL SEE THEM IN COURT.

ali4390

Thanks Coupon-mad, I'm happy to report them to the CMA.

Just to confirm, I send an email to Carflow advising them of my complaint to the CMA but I ignore all other correspondence from them and wait until I get a court summons (or don't)?

Gr1pr

You definitely wont receive a court summons, not for a civil matter !

You may eventually receive a Letter of Claim giving you 30 days notice , Respond to it

You may eventually get a Money Claim N1SDT pack from the CNBC in Northampton using MCOL, defend it !

In the meantime you will definitely get begging letters from powerless debt collectors, IGNORE THEM !