UW and Economy 7 - still worth it?

Swipe

Not sure if it's against their T&Cs or how they would even know, but if you have other NSHs on ALCS, you could just not tell them about the quantums and set them to only come on during the core off peak hours of say 00:30 to 06:30. Edited to correct core off-peak times.

QrizB

I agree with Swipe; if you've got two ALCS-controlled NSHs you should be eligible for Snug. The other two are just "other appliances".

lilac_dawn

Ok I need to look into this then, thanks. It happens to be one of the main quantums that is on a different circuit 🙄. The other one in the living room is an ancient one but still going strong. Can't remember the thinking behind not replacing that with a Quantum - maybe something to do with having that as a constant heat (until it runs out of course). It has been quite tricky getting to room to a decent temperature at times.

lilac_dawn

"The overnight off-peak times for Snug Octopus adjust when the clocks change, and the electricity for your whole home will be charged at the off-peak rate between 00:30 and 06:30 each night, year round.

Smart scheduling will continue to charge your storage heaters at the cheapest and greenest times each day, and when we're smart scheduling your storage heaters to charge before 00:30 or after 06:30, the off-peak price will be applied at those times too."

Does this mean, the off-peak charge is guaranteed between 00:30 and 6:30. The ALCs heaters might be switched on additionally outside of these times when Octopus sees fit. In addition, there is an extra hour of cheap time sometime in the afternoon?

So the storgage heaters that I manually input times will always get the 6 hours of charge. The ALCs ones might get more than 6 hours overnight. As an added bonus, there's an extra cheap hour, so the ALCs ones will get another boost. Do I have that right? Does Octopus tell you when the cheap hour is in advance or not?

QrizB

Does this mean, the off-peak charge is guaranteed between 00:30 and 6:30. The ALCs heaters might be switched on additionally outside of these times when Octopus sees fit. In addition, there is an extra hour of cheap time sometime in the afternoon?

Yes, and this is what other Snug users have reported seeing..

Ildhund

@QrizB wrote:

    @lilac_dawn asked:

    Does this mean, the off-peak charge is guaranteed between 00:30 and 6:30. 

Yes, and this is what other Snug users have reported seeing..

If those are ALCS Calendar timings, matching the Tariff Switching Table times, then the dreaded Randomized Offset comes into play (unless it's been disabled by the installing engineer). That could mean the actual On and Off times are up to 16 minutes later than advertised - i.e. potentially not On until 00:46 and not Off until 06:46. This also means that any 'other appliances' operating on dedicated timers should have those time-clocks set to match the actual offpeak period.

I think.

QrizB

^ Yes, you're quite right.

Tho' the "randomised offset" is (for any given meter) always the same, so once you work out the timing it should never change unless your meter is replaced.

Scot_39

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82113153#Comment_82113153

Their is apparently a similar delay to the randomised offset that impacts the dynamic alcs calander that Octopus control to give the 1030 11 1130pm style activations.

Some users times match old e7 - others never confirmed.

Exactly how that then defaults back to standard e7 alcs calendar when they cannot set their desired i like to call it dynamic version isnt clear to me. But evidence like the Vienna28 (?) Posts in above link suggests it does.

But as per their iirc Snug T&Cs rarher than FAQ the actual tariff is billed using unadjusted smart tou 1/2 hrly - on the rigid hour and half hour boundaries.

So hence the calcs in other Snug threads above where some dont actually get 9p in all off peak sessions.

Not so much an issue on 6 hr core, but one thread started with a user pointing out the issue on a 1/2hr only billing activation during advance- say 1130-0000 on, 0000 to 0030 off and 0030 core hours on and on 9p rate etc. Where 10m offset makes a real difference.

Again Snug faq and/or T&Cs warn about the impact of such delays on billing costs.

So if on Snug, your non alcs devices I think want to stick rigidly to the 48 tou meter slots.

So say 0030 0630 and 1500-1600 in winter, but 1600-1700 in summer as reports in other threads suggest it shifted at least on afternoon, despite faq re 0030 0630 fixed. Given dynamics and ability to cap others in that link thread above were less clear about the night

lilac_dawn

So I just need to know if my ALCS ones actually turn on at the E7 hours that I am currently being billed for, is that correct? Then my non-ALCS ones to be sure to programme them to the advertised E7 times?
AKAIK there isn’t much of a shift at all - 2 or 3 mins I seem to remember. The charger light comes on with the immersion also so I can see when they start drawing power.

Scot_39

with register based biling yes (well almost).

But not advertised times - suppliers dont know if you have a meter offset so give raw table tines without it - actual times including any meter offset for own timers. So say 0003 not 0000 etc.

On smart meters with alcs and register billing there are two seperate timing tables set by suppliers - for tariff and for alcs - and although most have them matched - mismatches are not as rare as to not be aware of the risk and check.

The randomised offset is applied to both tables and so only needs to be worried about if setting own timers.

And own timers may in addition need to be set (most if not all of the time) on presumption of off peak staying gmt on traditional multirate like e7 and e10, but not necessarily so in more modern 1/2 hourly billed tou like many (in past at least not all) ev and alcs heating specific tariff Octopus Snug where times may or may not follow clocks.

So for traditional e7 an old mechanical timer wouldnt arguably need changing at all - a digital may or may not depending upon wether it has an ignore gmt / dst switch setting (as my cheap c£10 supermarket timer for lights does)

Its not 100% perfect on my old smets1 which stays utc (gmt) in terms of tariff and alcs timing, as did its non smart digital predecessor - but does switch displayed time (i think on meter and definitely on ihd) - to the extent my ihd days data on historical scroll only updates just after 1am in summer. And is wrong - showing wrong days usage between midnight and 1am