Large crack in wall - should we notify insurers?

mjenks88

Hi, we live in a Victorian semi detached house in Sheffield. With the dry weather we’ve noticed what was a hairline crack widen into a 3mm crack at its widest. The crack runs diagonally from our front door, along an internal party wall into our cellar.

We had a drain survey done last year and it indicates several displaced joints on a public sewer that serves our and our neighbours property. We also have 2 large tree about 6m from the house.

I think the drain could be causing the issue but it could also be seasonal subsidence due to the tree roots. My question is should we notify our insurers now, or have Yorkshire Water fix the public drain to see if that solves the problem. We were also going to get the opinion of a structural engineer. My worry with notifying the insurance is that we will have to pay £1000 subsidence excess and our premium will sky rocket. However, I’m concerned if we monitor ourselves we’ll leave ourselves in a situation where insurers will say we didn’t notify them promptly enough if the crack widens further in the future.

Has anyone been in a similar situation and could they advise best course of action. I’m leaning towards notifying the insurer but is there a way of doing this without immediately causing a claim for subsidence that will appear on the insurance records?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Myci85

You might get a better response to this on the property forum as it specifically relates to property insurance/issues.

Annemos

These questions might help with the analysis.

-What type of trees are the two large trees?

-What height are they, if you can estimate? Compared to the building, for example.

-Do you have any idea when the two trees were planted?

-Are the Trees on Council Land, or your own land, or your neighbour's land?

-Do you know if you are likely to be built on clay soil? This link below might give an indication. Also, if your garden regularly cracks up in the summers, it is likely to be clay.

https://geologyviewer.bgs.ac.uk/?_ga=2.73478042.940214032.1787411668-2031067048.1787411668

mjenks88

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82111539#Comment_82111539

Thanks, the trees are common lime and sycamore (equidistant from wall). They are around the same height / slightly taller than the building, we did have them crowned and pruned about 4 years ago, so they are due some maintenance. They’re on our land. The soil is sandstone and mudstone on the BGS site. It doesn’t crack at the surface and we do have a cellar below the wall that’s cracked. The trees have been there many decades, the house is Victorian late 19th century.

Annemos

(Could the Tree roots and the Sewer issue be related? Drying out of the ground under the Pipes causing them to move in this drought?

In my own case in 2018, we had to have a Tanker from the Water Board to suck out all the roots that had actually entered the pipes and displaced the Pipe junctions and then they had to reline the Pipes.)

I am not an expert in buildings or insurance, but I did have a Subsidence claim for Council Tree roots in 2018. And I have been monitoring Ombudsman cases.

My own feeling is this: if you do have sufficient time before your next renewal, definitely get your own Structural Engineer in for their opinion of what could be causing the crack.

If the Engineer says it does look like Subsidence or could be Subsidence, (either from the leaking sewer and/or the tree roots drying out the clay under the foundation), then my opinion is that you should ask the Insurance Company to open up a claim. This is because, as you say, if you have not reported cracking promptly, then the Ins Company may later try to decline any claim, which could be expensive. (Even the investigations and soil analysis, boreholes etc can be expensive.) And I believe they can also try to void a policy which is bad for one's Insurance record. And there is also the issue of having to answer certain questions at renewal, anyway (see later).

If you don't have time to get the Structural Engineer's opinion, then you may decide you will have to open up a Subsidence Claim anyway. And maybe you cannot wait for the Water Board to come up with a solution that might work, either. Because you will be asked questions at your next renewal…. see later.

Note that if it is later found NOT to be Subsidence, then one can ask the Insurance Company to recharacterise the claim in the CUE, so it is not labelled as Subsidence. (As you are probably aware, to have a Subsidence claim on one's record has certain ramifications.) The Ombudsman tends to support such a position …… it has to stand on the CUE that an Insurance Claim was indeed opened, but if it is later found not to have been Subsidence, then it should not be labelled as Subsidence.

The thing is… what if your Engineer says in his/her opinion, something else is likely going wrong with the cellar? Thus, not Subsidence. I am not a building expert, but maybe there are reasons a Victorian cellar can crack. For example, can there be lateral Tree root movement against the foundation or some other issue which is not actually classed as Subsidence? (Subsidence is the downward movement of the ground under a foundation.)

So, in that case, one might want to carry out the proposed remedy and repairs as advised by the Structural Engineer. So, what happens, then, at renewal?

When the policy comes up for renewal, as I understand it, one might be asked the following:

Some Insurers ask a less flexible question: "is there is any cracking?" And you would have to say there is. And then they may try and decline to offer a new policy. (And this is another reason to open up a Claim before renewal.)

But other Insurers ask this type of question: "are the buildings free from previous or current damage caused by Subsidence, Landslip or Heave, such as cracks in the external walls?" In that case, if your Structural Engineer has good reasons and evidence to say it is NOT Subsidence, then I think you would have strong grounds to answer "Yes" to that question…….

And if you later had to open up a claim, you would have had a reason why you did not report it earlier: you were acting on advice from your Structural Engineer who had advised that it was a crack due to a different problem.

I hope that makes sense.

I also hope others will comment on this.

Good luck with getting it sorted out.

Just 2 positive notes from what you are saying. As you own the trees on your own land, you will not have to deal with a Council if the trees do need to come down. (A bigger problem arises though, if they are subject to a TPO!)

Also, if the Trees are the same age as the Building or younger, then the building is less likely to suffer from Heave, if the trees are taken down.

Annemos

addition…. I found this……

https://www.housey.co.uk/knowledge-base/basement-cracks-causes-assessment-structural-repair

huckster

Crack could be due to many causes. If you are worried enough, get a structural engineer to conduct a survey and follow their advice.

This summer has been hotter and drier than most, after a very wet Spring/Winter before. You have to think that the house has stood for more than 100 years and if there was any major issue with foundations, this would have shown up many years ago. And any recent change due to drains/trees is likely to be causing more than a hairline crack. But for peace of mind spending money on a structural survey would be a sensible step.