Would I get any benefit from a solicitor to arrange probate?

Ebany

My mother recently passed, and I am named as executor, along with my two brothers. I'm generally pretty good with forms and paperwork, and feel pretty comfortable at the idea of dealing with all the paperwork myself, but my mums former lawyer and financial adviser both keep encouraging us to get someone else to do it. I'm not sure how much they are just fishing for business though.

To my mind, its not an overly complicated estate. She left a fair amount of cash in various accounts (which has all been transferred to me, so we have no issue paying any bills that come due). There's a house to value (and eventually sell) which I've arranged a surveyor to do, since its a pretty unique house with several quirks that will make it hard to get a decent value from an estate agent. Then there's investments which are a S&S ISA and a bond, both of which are managed by the financial adviser. Overall, it looks like the estate will be just under the 1M mark, but when my father died last year he left everything to my mum so I can get all his allowances transferred which should mean no IHT (depending on exactly what that valuation comes in at). There were no debts aside from a car loan, which we have already cleared by selling the car, so thats all out the way.

Outside of the estate, there is a trust set up by my dad after my grandma died (so that's technically from my grandmas estate), and a retirement account that I understand will be distributed according to my mums wishes, but doesn't count into her estate.

When I look at various online things when I put in an estate of that size, they say there are probably multiple properties and/or loads of beneficiaries, but its just a simple will splitting evenly between my brothers and me. We all get along well and have had no disagreements about what should be done with anything. However, I have admittedly not done this before and I am wondering if I am missing something that does make it this complicated process rather than just a case of carefully filling in all the right forms?

poseidon1

Couple of questions, did your mother become the primary beneficary of the trust set up by your father after he died? If not who were the beneficiaries then and now and what was the nature of the trust (discretionary or life interest)? Also what was the date of your grandmother's death and was the trust set up under the terms of her Will or a deed of variation executed by your father?

The reason for the questions is to ensure the trust has no bearing on the value of your mother's estate for probate purposes.

As for the bond, is it a life company investment product and did it automatically terminate on your mother's death?

From what you have stated, the trust and the bond ( if a life assurance based product) are the only aspects which might complicate you obtaining probate yourself. If they prove not to an issue I see no immediate reason why you would necessarily need to engage a professional to deal with the estate.

That said, it sounds like you will need both of your father's nil rate bands as well as your mother's residence nil rate band , which will necessitate you completing the full blown IHT 400 form together with a number of supporting schedules.

That exercise has proven a steep learning curve for some DIY executors, since the forms are not entirely intuitive. Suggest you print out the forms to get a sense of what's involved. There are also extensive HMRC notes to assist with completing the IHT 400 if you get stuck. The language can get rather technical, since they were written with professionals in mind.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/69cd0ecfb5210036050bc61f/IHT400_2022__Notes_04-26final.pdf

However, winding up the separate trust ( if that is your eventual intention) will likely be a matter requiring guidance. This may entail completion of a separate IHT 100 form, as well as possible execution of a trust deed depending on type of trust and when it was set up. Trust matters are unfamiliar terrain for the vast majority of people, and undoubtedly difficult to navigate without specific knowledge.

Finally, as regards the retirement account, although it should be outside the estate and IHT exempt, the beneficiaries may be liable to income tax on distributions if your mother was over 75 when she died.

Keep_pedalling

Handing everything over to a solicitor means you lose control and everything is going to take a lot longer. Whether the trust impacts on her estate or not you will need to do an IHT return before you can apply for probate but I would not let that put you off.

The trust could complicate things and possibly result in an IHT liability for the estate so you should probably take professional advice on the trust.

RAS

It's not entirely either/or. And by collecting in the cash accounts you have already intermeddled (started the process). You can do probate yourself but take advice if thar is needed on a particular problem.

As poseidon1 explains until someone knowledgeable sees the details of the trust, and possibly your father's will, you won't understand what the consequences are for probate.

Albermarle

I had a close work colleague who delegated probate of their Mothers estate to a solicitor. As as I could see the solicitor was constantly asking for information, and my colleagues final reaction was ' I seemed to have to do 90% of the work, so might as well have done it myself and saved £3K'

You can DIY and still ask a solicitor for advice ( and pay) on specific matters, like trusts.

Reed_Richards

What do your two brothers feel about you doing the probate single-handed? As the three of you are named executors, surely the question is whether the three of you should should appoint a solicitor to do the probate?

Ebany

Couple of questions, did your mother become the primary beneficary of the trust set up by your father after he died? If not who were the beneficiaries then and now and what was the nature of the trust (discretionary or life interest)? Also what was the date of your grandmother's death and was the trust set up under the terms of her Will or a deed of variation executed by your father?

The reason for the questions is to ensure the trust has no bearing on the value of your mother's estate for probate purposes.

The beneficiaries of the trust were my mum and my brothers and me. Its a discretionary trust. My grandma died in 2022 and the trust was set up as a variation of the will from my dads part of the inheritance. As far as I can see, that means its not relevant to my mums estate.

As for the bond, is it a life company investment product and did it automatically terminate on your mother's death?

Yes, it was, so I am working on the basis this is part of her estate.

It's not entirely either/or. And by collecting in the cash accounts you have already intermeddled (started the process). You can do probate yourself but take advice if thar is needed on a particular problem.

Didn't get a lot of choice in that matter, when my brother started informing banks of her passing they sent him the money. He's subsequently sent it to me as he's away for the entire summer and we didn't want everything to sit in limbo.

I'm aware of the need to do the IHT return, and have printed off all the relevant schedules that I need - I'm up to 10 schedules now, but they all seem to make sense. I've filled out a fair chunk of them already, where I have the information.

My brothers say they are fine with me doing it so long as I don't feel burdened by it, which I don't, I just also don't want to mess it up.

Ebany

Oh, and as for the trust, we have spoken to the financial adviser about this (as it is also managed by the same company). Its currently invested in such a way there would be penalties if we wind it up before 2028. We are all happy to leave it as is until then (though we do need to do the paperwork to add us as trustees as my mum was the only one left). Once we reach that point we plan to split it three ways and each sort out our own portion - I'm thinking to transfer my third directly to my daughter as I don't need the money and if I tried to take it I'd lose a huge chunk to tax, whereas she won't have that problem.

poseidon1

Thanks for the clarification.

Seems to me you have all relevant bases covered to progress with probate yourself.

The trust is indeed a separate entity from your mother's estate and not disclosable on the IHT 400, whilst you have a clean exit from the investment bond with a defined death claim value for the IHT 400.

As far as I can determine, the only matter which will prolong administration of the estate ( after grant of probate) is the family decision related to sale or retention of your mothers home.

I note there are potential penalties if terminating the discretionary trust before 2028. However depending on the investment value, there will be a 10 year anniversary IHT reporting requirement in 2032 and a potential IHT charge at 6% if value exceeds £325k at that point.

In the meantime I assume the trust is invested in such a way that no taxable trust income or gains arise annually thereby mitigating the need for annual trust tax returns and simplification of the trust administration. However, there is a current vacuum of trustee control at the moment which needs to be remedied.

As a result of the death of the surviving trustee, power to appoint new trustees vests with yourselves in your capacity as executors of your mother's estate. The solicitor should therefore arrange your execution of a deed to appoint yourselves as ongoing trustees.

Albermarle

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82104666#Comment_82104666

My brothers say they are fine with me doing it so long as I don't feel burdened by it, which I don't, I just also don't want to mess it up.

As an aside, it is not unheard of for active Executors to be given informal gifts by non active ones/beneficiaries, for all the work they are doing. Any payment would just be a monetary gift- nothing formal or from the estate and no strings attached. This seems fair enough to me as you will be saving the estate solicitors fees, although it obviously depends on the personalities and relationships involved.

Apparently in the US it is normal for the Executor to get a small % of the estate for their troubles, but there it is usually written into the will and taken from the estate.

437222

My advice for what it's worth is to hand it over to a solicitor.

This actually reads like it could be complicated to do. If there is money in the Estate, use it to pay a solicitor, get things done properly, and take it easy on yourself.