Mums rights

pitza

Hi my daughters ex husband has kept my granddaughter at his and is refusing to let my daughter see her without supervision as he says she is upset because the last time they were together with my daughters partner there was an argument about getting ready for school which involved the partner shouting at my granddaughter, how can my daughter now get to see her child?

Is court the only way because it could take weeks, can child welfare services help?

Jemma01

If your grandchild genuinely doesn't feel safe around the boyfriend, then I don't blame the dad.

Has there been any supervised visits so far? Have you tried mediation before court? I think putting a child order in place is probably overdue so that at least there's something legally enforceable.

LightFlare

did your daughters partner really shout at the child ?

If so, then I can’t blame the dad.

The partner should not be getting involved and if he’s willing to shout at the child when there are people around, then I can’t blame dad for being concerned what may happen behind closed doors

What age child ?

sheramber

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6679180/mums-rights

Would you not be better discussing with your daughter how her partner had upset your granddaughter so much?

Has anybody dealt with that problem?

Surely your granddaughter’s well being is more important that “mum’s rights”?

What about child’s rights to fell safe?

pitza

My ex son in law is the most awkward, vendictive, controlling man you could ever meet, he lies constantly,he is a complete narcissist so the situation is very hard to deal with.

My daughter was present at the argument and says it was just a normal case of child not getting ready for school and everyone loosing their cool which probably happens in every family at sometime.

My daughter spoke with my granddaughter on the way to school and she went off quite happy.

She obviously said something to her dad and that would be all he would need to do what he is doing.

He has sent my granddaughter to a therapist at which both parents attended and then she was seen on her own.

Before She went in the therapist ask if she knew why she was there and she shrugged her shoulders , she is a very bright 12 year old and she came out quite happy but bewildered.

My daughter has seen her again but only on her ex ers terms with him present no know chance to speak with her properly.

Both parents have attended mediation with the ex getting into an argument with the mediator within the first two minutes, he is impossible to reason with.

Jemma01

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82096343#Comment_82096343

Sounds like its a case for C100 application, if mediation failed. Let the court hear both sides and decide. Supervised visitations can be arranged by a third party. All he needs is to be sure the partner isn't present, doesn't mean he sits with them controlling the conversation !?!

But either way, the partner has no business getting involved if she's not ready for school. That's for the daughter to handle.

elsien

Where does the child usually live?

As the OP says, it’s not automatically a massive red flag someone getting cross with a child who’s faffing around getting ready for school. It is certainly not a reason to prevent the mother from seeing a child without supervision.

If you google there are some helplines out there that can give some initial advice around family disputes, although they tend to be very busy. Perhaps that could be a starting point for your daughter to understand her rights.

Ms_Chocaholic

This is what your daughter needs and i would suggest she apply for a Specific Issue Order

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/form-c100-application-under-the-children-act-1989-for-a-child-arrangements-prohibited-steps-specific-issue-section-8-order-or-to-vary-or-discharge

I presume that your granddaughter has always lived with her mother and there has never been any previous issues.

I'm not sure why supervised contact is necessary as presumably dad has no concerns regarding mum's care.

ian1246

Its worth remembering that the phrase "narcissist" is thrown out almost automatically whenever a relationship comes to an end and an ex-partner does something the other doesnt like. Only an estimated 1-2% of men are actually narcissists, so its very unlikely he is.

Right now your focusing just on the ex as the problem and cause of it and seem to be failing to reflect at all on your daughter or her partners actions. It may well be that your daughters ex is the problem....

.... But has it ever crossed your or your daughters mind about how the "narcissist ex" knows about the incident? Clearly your granddaughter was effected by it enough to tell her father - she's either to young to understand the dynamics of the co-parenting relationship & innocently mentioned it (due to it weighing on her young mind) or she's old enough to understand the potential effects of speaking to her father & what it could mean in terms of implications - either option does not reflect well on your daughter.

If a young child's getting shouted at by your daughters partner thats emotional abuse. If a older child's upset enough to tell her dad (likely understanding at least some of the co-parenting dynamics & the potential blow back on her mum) it likely means its had a much bigger effect on her than your daughters either realised or willing to accept.

Your daughter needs to take accountability for her actions also - particularly if its apparently a normalised "not out of the ordinary" situation which is the impression your daughters downplaying of it gives.

Frankly, it sounds like she's prioritising her relationships dynamics (i.e. not challenging her partners actions) over that of her daughters own wellbeing. Thats not ok and the dad is absolutely spot on for taking action if its had an impact on his daughter.

Remember --statistically its step-fathers & mothers partners who are not the biological father to the children who pose the most risk to children. They are the one's who are most likely to commit abuse (emotional, physical or sexual) - his shouting at the granddaughter is a potential red flag you should not ignore.

Maybe her father taking her to a counsellor is his acknowledging this red flag? Likely with this incident merely the latest "thing" which has come to his attention which has him concerned. Unless he's a wealthy person where money has no value, throwing away 100's of £££ on a private counsellor isn't something even a bitter vindictive ex would immediately resort to over a single incident....

pitza

They were all shouting at each other which as I said probably happens up and down the country every morning when everyone is in a hurry, it's not the big issue he is trying to make it out to be and certainly not a good enough reason to take matters into his own hands and take control to stop mother and daughter seeing each other when they clearly both need to and have a right to. Surely he should have contacted child services if he was that worried, he kept her off school for the last three days of term with no real explanation of why , which the school weren't very happy about.

He moved away from the catchment a few years ago and started another family and wanted to move my granddaughter to another school near him to save all the traveling as they have an agreed 50- 50 custody arrangement but was told by the mediator that was very unlikely to happen without my daughters agreement and the fact that she is doing so well at her present school where all her friends are.

He hates not getting his own way and so is as awkward as possible when any arrangements need to be made even to the point of his own daughter loosing out on friends parties and after school events whereas my daughter goes out of her way to try and keep things running smoothly for them all.

sheramber

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82098061#Comment_82098061

Surely he should have contacted child services

Should your daughter not be doing the same?