E.on - meter reading on day of completion of sale

QrizB

What if the meters are not smart or indeed if they are analogue?

The third party plays a role in adjudicating the handover reading, based on historical consumption. See the So Energy link shared by WiserMiser above.

The 250 kWh or equivalent "allowed" variance you are talking perhaps £60 per fuel ?

At current prices, yes. Less when the rules were agreed.

Do the SCs get apportioned to each customer ?

SC is charged per day. No-one ever gets charged for a fraction of a day, it's all or nothing.

What about if there are PV systems at the property?

What about PV in particular? FITs are paid for every kWh generated, based on handover readings. SEG is only paid for kWh generated while you're registered and can have gaps.

What happens if the leaving client has a debt, the incoming client could find they cannot switch?

You tell the incumbent supplier you're new, they close the old account and open a new one for you. A new customer can then switch. The incumbent supplier will pursue the original debtor for their debt.

debitcardmayhem

What about PV in particular? FITs are paid for every kWh generated, based on handover readings. SEG is only paid for kWh generated while you're registered and can have gaps.

Does the incoming client have to wait for the supplier to verify that the MPAN is valid or do they accept that they have been paying SEG and hence there should be no gaps, we know that doesn't happen though.

You tell the incumbent supplier you're new, they close the old account and open a new one for you. A new customer can then switch. The incumbent supplier will pursue the original debtor for their debt.

Unless of course you disagree with the deemed opening reading

The "what ifs" of course are the reason we see all manner of scenarios on this forum, the rules around changeover are not perfect but OFGEM don't pay much attention to "us".😁

a_q

So you seem to be saying if there is a GREATER THAN 250kWh difference, I can dispute the reading, but if less, not? THis seems !!!!!! about face. I predict this happening more and more where batteries, car charging and storage heaters are taking significant energy in the off-peak time up to 0700, and most completions happen between 10:00 and 14:00.

In the old days when the meters were "dumb" we just used the actual meter reading as the source of truth. And it worked.

Reading all the above, nobody has been able to come up with the fundamentals. So I'll put the following to you, and let's see who disagrees, feel free to chip in on all or part:

Liability for an electricity supply when buying a house starts at the time of completion (when legal ownership transfers and funds are released) rather than at 00:00 or when you physically pick up the keys.

You are legally responsible for energy and standing charges from the exact moment the sale completes on completion day.

My timestamped photo wins the argument because:

1. The Deemed Contract Rule: Under Ofgem regulations, you are only liable from the moment you become responsible for the property. This is the time of the completion.
2. The Previous Owner's Usage: If the previous owner used electricity between 01:00 am and the completion time (e.g., leaving heating on, cleaning, or running appliances before handing over the keys), that energy belongs to their final bill, not your opening bill

When you move into a home without signing a specific contract, you are placed on a "deemed contract". Standard Licence Condition 28 (SLC 28) dictates exactly how these contracts apply to a new owner. [1, 2]The primary legislation that overrides automated smart meter readings backdated to 01:00 AM is found under Schedule 6, Paragraph 3 of the Electricity Act 1989, which Ofgem enforces via its licence conditions:

"Where an electricity supplier supplies electricity to any premises otherwise than in pursuance of a contract, the supplier shall be deemed to have contracted with the occupier (or the owner if the premises are unoccupied) for the supply of electricity from the time when he began to take such a supply."

The Key Takeaway: The phrase "from the time when he began to take such a supply" is the legal shield. You did not "begin to take" the supply at 01:00 AM because you did not legally own or occupy the property at that hour..

The Regulation on Determining Accurate ConsumptionIf a supplier attempts to use an early morning automated reading, they are likely in breach of Standard Licence Condition 28.11, which requires them to act reasonably when calculating usage: [1]

"The licensee must act in a reasonable manner including, the use of any available consumption data for the premises and other relevant factors, when determining the [kilowatt hours] of gas or electricity taken..."

The Key Takeaway: The timestamped photograph counts as "available consumption data" and an essential "relevant factor". A supplier refusing to use physical photographic evidence over an automated system projection is failing to act in a "reasonable manner" as mandated by Ofgem

QrizB

So you seem to be saying if there is a GREATER THAN 250kWh difference, I can dispute the reading, but if less, not?

That's the rule, yes.

a_q

And that applies to their reading - which I do not dispute. What the dispute is, is that my reading taken later is more accurate because it's much closer to the time of completion. That's the "new evidence" that they must now take into account (as per the wording in my post just above".

Reed_Richards

In the old days when the meters were "dumb" we just used the actual meter reading as the source of truth.

No we didn't. The person leaving the property takes a closing meter reading (or should do), the person moving in takes an opening meter reading (or should do) which will almost certainly be hours later. Unless absolutely everything is turned off, the two readings will differ; there needs to be some methodology for reconciling these two different readings. It's easy to "cheat" and put a fake time stamp on a photograph. And do you really have a time-stamped photo of your meter taken at exactly 12 noon? That should be the time at which you collected the keys, not when you were inside the property.

A supplier refusing to use physical photographic evidence over an automated system projection …

As I tried to explain earlier, it's not a "projection". With a smart meter, in all probability the supplier can determine the exact meter reading at 12 noon.

J63320

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82091789#Comment_82091789

250kWh?? That’s nearly two months usage for me!

debitcardmayhem

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82092556#Comment_82092556

Them's the rules, but those rules apply to the suppliers between themselves, they don't have standing in terms of customers, unless someone can show where they do😎

Reed_Richards

My electricity bills are based on my half-hourly consumption data; I never get told what my actual meter readings are. But I can download my own data so I can see that yesterday, 4th August, I used (i.e. imported) a total of 11.738 kWh between midnight and 12 noon (BST). So whatever my meter reading was at midnight plus 11.738 would be my exact meter reading at noon yesterday.

Swipe

To me it feels like a storm in a teacup.

Exactly, unless there's a heated swimming pool involved, we are likely talking less than £10 out of pocket at the very most.