Another thread about foam insulation

SnowWhiterThanWhite

@SHEENAS Thanks, I'll take a look

SnowWhiterThanWhite

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82088978#Comment_82088978

Thanks, Son is a Sparky so a rewire is fine, he can put his hand to most things, but just want to make sure that the property is mortgageable thereafter, should a DIY foam insulation removal is done

SnowWhiterThanWhite

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82089101#Comment_82089101

Thank you!

stuart45

You need to know whether it's open or closed cell. Open is easier to remove, but going by the age of the property could well have the older type felt. With open cell moisture can get through the foam and condense on the felt, making the roof timbers damp. Closed cell is less likely to do this, although it will hold any water from leaks. Being a bungalow means having a bigger roof space and area to remove the foam from.

FreeBear

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82089112#Comment_82089112

The manufacturers of the chemicals, along with the PCA and spray foam companies claim that moisture can pass through open cell foam. In reality, it still contains 10% or more of closed cell foam, and if it has a skin on it, no moisture is going to get through.

SnowWhiterThanWhite

So, had a company out to look at the foam. It's closed cell applied to felt. They immediately advised that the foam could not be removed & that they would need to remove the tiles ( which can be reused) replace battens, refelt, apply insulation to floor of loft to bring it up to regulation standards, deal with local planning officers to do a before & after survey, at an inclusive cost of 15k. The rafters are in good condition.

This is a 2 bed semi bungalow in South West England. The original insulation was applied in 2013 by Dreamroofs (i think). It had a 10 year guarantee at the time. The property has already been reduced by 20k & the seller won't reduce any further. Its such a shame as apart from the roof, its perfect. Has anyone here had closed cell foam successfully removed from inside of roof making the property mortgageable?

WIAWSNB

So the main issue here is seemingly not being able to obtain a mortgage. But, with your help, there is a workaround.

Your roofer has confirmed - as far as he can see - that the rafters are in good condition. That is good news. And, foam trapping moisture and causing rot will likely only happen if the roof allows in rain in the first place, so hopefully, and presumably, it does not. And even if it did, it would almost certainly only occur in one place, with one rafter, and a roofer could replace/sister that rafter if needed whilst keeping t'roof over y'head.

Ie - the roof is not going to come down because of foam. Almost certainly this roof will last as long as any other similar roof in the area. What makes a roof require recovering is usually nail fatigue, or deteriorating tiles, both of which will occur at the exact same rate as a non-foamed roof. So, your roof will need recovering, but only in 30 years or so… Most likely.

Your son likes this house. You agree it ticks all the boxes. There is the opportunity for a bargain. It has been discounted £20k. The seller claims they won't budge beyond this.

This is your, and your son's, call. But I'm pretty sure I know what I would do. Let your son tell the EA there are two issues affecting the asking price - the presence of foam which means the rafters could rot away unseen, and not being able to get a mortgage (don't tell them you could cash buy.) Tell the EA you will continue to seek mortgage lenders who may consider this with the foam issue, or you may possibly find one who might not even ask, but there is also the remote possibility of asking yer dad to put up the money, but you are clearly very reluctant to do this, as it's a significant risk to their pension pot... So, you would require a further £10k (or whatevs) reduction before you'd even approach yer dad about this.

And leave that with them.

If they come back and agree that reduction, then how to pay is up to you - chase a mortgage co, or just go 'cash', and give your dad whatever %-age a mortgage co would demand (or a little less…) Then, once you buy, you do what I suggested before; in yer own good time, go up into the loft and run a blunt-tipped, but sharp-sided, knife down alongside the rafters in turn. Work your way until you feel you are close to (mark the blade with the rafter depth) the 'felt' layer - try not to cut into it. Then ditto at a 45o angle, so you remove a neat fillet of foam away from the rafter sides. The rafters are now free to breathe.

I will happily bet - as a non-betting fellow - that the roof will last as long as any similar roof in t'hood. But you need to accept the worst-case scenario that rot is discovered, tiles begin to slip, and you need to tackle it fully, at £15k.

But that won't happen :-)

Meanwhile, pile up the loft insulation where it has an actual effect - on the ceiling. Keep the eaves clear, and make sure the loft area howls with wind when she blows - you want it as draughty as possible.

Happy New Bargain House. Almost certainly…

stuart45

Was the 20 grand taken off because of the roof? If so, at least you'd be getting a new roof membrane and the insulation upgraded.

SnowWhiterThanWhite

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82099641#Comment_82099641

Thanks for that. The property was already being marketed as a cash only deal. We had a cash deal agreed, but obviously now, the 4k we budgeted is now 15k, which is just out of reach.

I totally agree with all you've said, but unfortunately, we will need our stake back so the property will need to be mortgageable within the next couple years.

I may contact a local roofer for a 2nd opinion, you never know....

FreeBear

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82099641#Comment_82099641

Whilst there are a small number of mortgage companies that will lend on a property with spray foam insulation, their attitude to the stuff could well change in the future. If son does buy, doesn't sort the roof, he will be in the same boat as the current vendor when his turn comes to sell.

So the choice is to buy, and at some point in the next <mumble> years, have the roof stripped and foam removed, or walk away.