Noisy upstairs renter.

Marky4040

Hi All, could you help me.

I own my apartment but the guy upstairs rents.

I've spoken to him a few times just after i moved in one year ago, he seems ok, his 8 yr old son comes to visit every other weekend.

The issue -

• he's always clattering about at 1am 2am 3am most nights which often wakes me up. I have to be up for work at 5 am
• his son runs around screaming shouting, banging and plays video games without head phones on. Once i was so angry how loud it was, i banged the ceiling, they turned it down.
• the lease says quiet hours are from 11pm to 7am and it does have a clause about "noise nuisance".
• who is responsible for enforcing this? The management company? or someone else?
• he doesn't speak to me any more after the banging the ceiling incident a few months back but the early hours clattering about continues. He works and in is in his late 40s early 50s
• he has a lovely little black cat (against the lease) but i don't want to make it a homeless refugee, i love cats.

I don't really want to speak to him again about the noise and i don't think his lifestyle is conducive to living in a top floor flat. There are 3 floors and i make sure i never make noise for my neighbour below me.

What can i do?

Worried_fool

Maybe start with a polite note mentioning these points, and how they affect you?

Jemma01

The fact your ceiling knocking made them turn it down goes to show he's not trying to be noisy, very likely oblivious to the noise because you're quiet. He doesn't hear you and assumes no one hears him.

I wouldn't escalate it to the environment folks (your council), instead try to talk to him in person, no passive aggressive letters. When his kid is around playing games, ask him to come downstairs for 1min and hear the noise, maybe he'll realise the impact and be more considerate, and get his son some headphones!!

Rosa_Damascena

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82073874#Comment_82073874

Or maybe he'll refuse to leave his son unattended in the flat? An alternative would be to record the bumps you hear downstaors.

OP - I have sympathy. A friend who lives in a GFF hears everything going on upstairs including the washing machine, but isn't bothered by it - whereas I very much am (when I visit). I am wondering whether what seems like normal activity to your neighbour is magnified by the time it gets to you because of hard flooring?

Whatever you do, nip it in the bud early.

Sam_666

Very fantasy responses, from first two responses above, from people who never had to deal with noisy neighbour.

To OP, next time there is noise, try having calm and neutral complaint to neighbour, ring on his door.
Most likely, it wont make any difference, but always worth a try.
Noisy people know well they are noisy and just dont care, world is at wrong, not them.

Lease terms are between freeholder and leaseholder. Nothing to do with you, unless you also own that flat.

You could complain to freeholder and to council.
But you would have to tread carefully, as it could stop you from selling your place.
In my opinion, freeholder wont care, as your problem doesnt generate them revenue.
Councils are useless, and they dont want to spend their money and time on your problem. Best they can do, is to tell you to keep diary of incidents!!!

Sorry that you find yourself in this situation, but you will have to suck it up. Invest in quality noise cancelling headset for daytime and some quality mini earplug noise cancelling headset too.

eddddy

Sam_666 said

Lease terms are between freeholder and leaseholder. Nothing to do with you, unless you also own that flat.

Not really. If that were the case, what would be the point of covenants in the lease about 'no pets', 'laying carpets', 'no noise' etc? Why would a freeholder care about any of those things?

Marky4040 said

the lease says quiet hours are from 11pm to 7am and it does have a clause about "noise nuisance".

Your lease will almost certainly say how you can deal with breaches of the lease by other leaseholders.

Usually a lease will say that, if you report to the freeholder that another leaseholder is breaching the lease, then the freeholder must take enforcement action (but you must indemnify the freeholder's costs).

But different freeholders might deal with this differently.

• Some freeholders might immediately write to the leaseholder saying something like "It has been reported that you are breaching the lease because your tenant is making a noise. You must not breach your lease."

• Other freeholders might say to you "Before we take any action, you must provide evidence that the other leaseholder is breaching the lease. We won't just take your word for it."

But unless the breach of lease is either admitted by the other leaseholder, or proven at a court/tribunal - you might have to pay the freeholder's costs of enforcement. (i.e. indemnify the freeholder)

Obviously, it's up to you whether you want to investigate this route. If you take this route, when you eventually sell the flat, the buyer will probably find out about this noise dispute, and it might put them off.

TroubledTarts

Unfortunately this is sometimes the issue with flats l, years of very quiet neighbours then a neighbour who doesn't have the same rhythm or quietness.

• he's always clattering about at 1am 2am 3am most nights which often wakes me up. I have to be up for work at 5 am

My husband was the same for two years as he suddenly developed anxiety and sleep issues through a turbulent time at work. But with a detached house this only effected a single household. The point is you don't know what's going on, sounds like a potential split with some access to his child at weekends? Stressful times

• his son runs around screaming shouting, banging and plays video games without head phones on. Once i was so angry how loud it was, i banged the ceiling, they turned it down

As above this could be new for both of them and a bit of let his son do what he wants if he sees his son 2 days out of 14.

These are all presumptions and other things could be going on as well so I don't think it's going to be that easy a subject to bring up with the noise.

I would start with a written letter explaining it is effecting your quiet enjoyment of your property and there are rules that there are quiet times and let him know that. I understand that children can get excited but gaming with headphones is a nice compromise so you can enjoy what you are doing at the same time. Sometimes delivered with some biscuits or a cake goes down well and offer if they want to talk about it you are available and make a mean cup of tea...or coffee....or ......

Catonthemoon

As mentioned above, when it comes to flats, it is a bit of a lottery. One minute, you’re living quite happily in your home with decent, considerate neighbours who don’t create any issues for you; the next minute, new tenants move in and then life as you knew it will have changed (possibly for a very long time).

A couple of points you’ve raised:

“i don't think his lifestyle is conducive to living in a top floor flat” - that argument won’t hold much water …where would you suggest a single person lives?

“who is responsible for enforcing this?” - his Landlord. You might have to do a bit of detective work to find out which Estate Agent he’s renting through - there’s usually details of the Company who manage the whole building to be found in the communal area… that would be a good starting point.

Don’t waste your time with the Council.

At a guess, he probably works a shift something like midday to midnight which might explain the pottering about after he gets in. Given that you no longer seem to be on speaking terms, if I were you, I would write a polite letter (keep a copy), describing how his ‘activities in the early hours’ are impacting you (you have to get up at 5am etc). See how he responds (if at all!), then you can come back here if you need any further advice.

Good luck 🤞

Bigphil1474

For clarity, councils deal with noise nuisance. In most council areas that has to be a statutory nuisance, not just something that bothers you. Normal living noises aren't usually stat nuisance. So people walking around, talking, etc. wouldn't be included. Is it their fault if the building has no noise insulation etc. Amplified noise such as music or TV would be. In my experience, getting the council involved is probably not worth it yet. If there is a lease agreement that he isn't keeping to, then that would be the best place to start. It may not resolve the issue straight away , but it might mean that the tenant gets the boot at the earliest opportunity. Landlords don't usually like hassle.

Chief_of_Staffy

There's nothing you can do so I'd buy some earplugs and cope. It's unfortunate, but these places aren't built with the interests of residents in mind and you won't get anyone to act on your behalf. You'll just obsess over it and waste your time listening and documenting and reporting and the noise will remain the same.

I had exactly the same thing many years ago. I was in the middle apartment, the guy upstairs was single, had his young son over every other weekend, and he played his Xbox so loud I could hear which game he was on. I'd bought that place because it was relatively 'upmarket' and the development had won awards, but evidently none of them were for soundproofing.

At least, I think it was his son. A number of other older children hung out up there too from time to time, often without the guy being present. When I eventually encountered this guy I found him to exude a cold evil. I'm just glad I never interacted.