Neighbour refuses repairs on my side, both leaseholds, freeholder invovled.

stuckinarut123

i’ll add a bit of background here, i (call me X) purchased a leasehold maisonette ground floor in England in September 2024, my neighbour (call them Y) also purchased their ground floor leasehold maisonette in September 2024.

We both have a single upstairs neighbour, so there are 4 properties (2 on my side, 2 on theirs - one bottom and one top floor).

Around 1 year ago, i noticed bad smells from the drains, called a private expert out to check, and they show me and my upstairs neighbour that the manhole in our garden, inside our property boundary contains the pipes of neighbour Y and their associated upstairs neighbour.

The manhole has sewage waste pipes along with water waste from the kitchen/bathroom etc. these are old Victorian sewers.

drainage expert showed us and said that pipes belonging to Y (and their upstairs neighbour) are broken, badly damaged and had terrible work done to it - the work was really evident, proper cowboy job. Anyway, raw sewage just sits there as the original waste pipes have broken away, so sewage hardly moves. Once water hits it, the smells breach the manhole cover along with drain flies and other pests. Drainage person said get a cctv survey.

I spoke to Y with my upstairs neighbour of the issues with Y’s pipes and we should get a cctv survey to get some qoutes for work. Y refused to contribute, they said the pipes are on my side so my problem! Basically they were really stubborn and no help!!!

local water company said it was private issue and needs fixing, advised i go to freeholder as we all have the same common one. I chased the freeholder for 10 months to get them to force the person Y to allow their pipes to be surveyed via CCTV so they can ascertain the issue.

Person Y refutes that the pipes are theirs and any damage to the pipes does not affect them. It affects me badly, everyday.

Fast forward 4 months post CCTV survey and the freeholder has said they will issue a breach of lease on Y.

What can i expect here from this? Are they really going to enforce the terms of the lease that Y has refused to make a repair and they have been chasing for months?

what happens if Y refuses? They are very stubborn and rude!

eddddy

stuckinarut123 said

What can i expect here from this? Are they really going to enforce the terms of the lease that Y has refused to make a repair and they have been chasing for months?

what happens if Y refuses? They are very stubborn and rude!

It depends what the leases say. Maisonette leases are sometimes a bit unusual.

• 1) 'Standard' leases usually say that the freeholder must enforce lease terms - but if it's based on a complaint by you, you might have to indemnify the freeholder against the costs of enforcement. (Has the freeholder mentioned you indemnifying them?)

• 2) But maisonette leases might say that the leaseholders must enforce lease terms on other leaseholders

As the freeholder is taking an interest, let's assume it's option 1. Typically, a freeholder might take the following enforcement action:

• 1) Send letters to your neighbour telling them to fix their drain - and maybe charge your neighbour about £50 per letter

• 2) Instruct solicitors - who would write to you neighbour threatening legal action, if the drain isn't fixed. Your neighbour might now be charged £500 to £1500 in legal fees

• 3) Start legal action - which could end up with your neighbour's lease being forfeited. (i.e. the freeholder repossess your neighbours flat)

The freeholder can then sell a new lease on the flat to a new buyer, and the sale money would cover the cost of the drain repairs.

stuckinarut123

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82064349#Comment_82064349

thanks for responding eddy,

As far as i know the freeholder is doing option 1. They have been chasing for over a year now the person sending constant letters, emails and calls and the person Y is refusing to fix anything.

Their argument is that 1) they are not affected. But this was proven wrong since the CCTV survey shows that their pipes are in need of urgent repairs and will collapse in under a year (causing massive damages to my property too as i am closest to the manhole, the entire manhole could get blocked and raw sewage will flood through the toilets hence an expensive repair).

And 2) that its on my side, even if it is their pipes.

freeholder has not mentioned if they are adding costs to the letters. They just said split the CCTV survey 4 ways, a bill has not arrived yet.

they told me they are chasing the same company to come to my property, inspect the manhole again for qoutes they can submit to Y, but this doesn’t make sense 100% as the issues occur from their land and they wont let any drainage person on it! Arghhhh nightmare!!

Lastly, can you explain more about the indeminity cost for the freeholders legal coverage? They have not said anything, but i am worried about this as i don’t have the money to cover a huge legal bill for what is probably less than a 2K repair.

The neighbours upstairs to Y are on his side, and dont care either.

eddddy

stuckinarut123 said

Their argument is that 1) they are not affected. But this was proven wrong since the CCTV survey shows that their pipes are in need of urgent repairs and will collapse in under a year (causing massive damages to my property too as i am closest to the manhole, the entire manhole could get blocked and raw sewage will flood through the toilets hence an expensive repair).

And 2) that its on my side, even if it is their pipes.

The leases will say who is responsible for repairs.

Often (but not always) leases say:

• If a section of pipe is used by only one flat, that flat leaseholder is responsible for repairing (and paying for) that section of pipe

• If a section of pipe is used by more than one flat, the freeholder is responsible for repairing that section of pipe - and the freeholder will then split the cost between all the leaseholders

Lastly, can you explain more about the indeminity cost for the freeholders legal coverage? They have not said anything, but i am worried about this as i don’t have the money to cover a huge legal bill for what is probably less than a 2K repair.

It doesn't sound like this applies in your case, as the freeholder seems to be actively involved in investigating the problem.

In other circumstances, a freeholder might want an indemnity if…

• You tell the freeholder that another leaseholder is breaching the lease - and you tell the freeholder to take enforcement action
• The freeholder takes your word for it, and starts enforcement action against the other leaseholder
• It turns out that the other leaseholder isn't breaching the lease
• So you have to pay the enforcement costs - because you were wrong

But the freeholder would warn you, if they were taking that approach.

stuckinarut123

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82064377#Comment_82064377

thank you for responding.

I have read the head lease from my property and it does state i am responsible for repairs of things like drains, however it also mentions to allow access to neighbouring properties to carry out repairs of their own on their property. I assume in my case, that this means person Y pipes must be repaired and access will be given by me (of course access i will give).

Yes the freeholder has not mentioned anything and there is no indemnity clause inside my lease. I believe they are actively willing to try and pursue this as far until the work is done.

When i phoned the freeholder, he said we will now issue a breach of lease document which gives them 14 days to fix anything, if they dont fix anything we will pursue the legal process.
One of the things they mentioned was that if they dont fix it themselves in 14 days then they will force access, i assume by a court order to fix it then recharge the person?

they have also said that in some cases it means clawing back the property like you said.

my last question is what does the legal process look like in the 3rd case you stated? Is it a very long legal court process of months/years for a breach of lease so tht the freeholder can have access? The reason is the pipes are less than a year away from falling apart, more recently worse in months so progressing badly!

MyRealNameToo

So is the garden physically divided between the units? Do you have exclusive use of your bit or is it shared with your upstairs?

Do you have a plan of the drains and know where the break is? Let's call next door upstairs X, so does X and Y join together then go on to your garden and break before yours join it? Or are X and Y independently joining an already communal pipe?

For the Private Sewer Transfer Act a property is considered the building so despite it having multiple units waste it will still be a private matter and come down to the terms of the lease on who needs to pay for it.

I know in a recent issue in our building if it was a problem caused by the plumbing of a single unit then that unit has to deal with it. If however its caused by a communal pipe (eg two units join together and then it breaks) then the freeholder fixes it and all units have to pay their share of the cost which in our building means its divided equally amoungst all.

eddddy

Does the lease say that, if the leaseholder doesn't carry out repairs, the freeholder has the right to? (It's possible that the lease says that, but it would be a bit unusual.)

If not, 3 different possible routes would be:

• 1) The freeholder gets a court order (injunction) that orders the leaseholder to do repairs. If the leaseholder disobeys the court order, they would be in contempt of court. (In theory, this could end up with a fine or imprisonment)

• 2) The freeholder gets a court order that allows the freeholder to do repairs.

• 3) The freeholder starts the process of forfeiting the lease (repossession)

Getting a court order should be relatively quick - assuming the lease is clear that it's your neighbour's responsibility to do the repairs. If it's not clear (or your neighbour disputes it), it could take weeks or months of legal argument.

Forfeiting the lease would probably take many months. But usually the build up of legal costs, and the risk of losing their maisonette would 'scare' a leaseholder into doing the repairs quickly. But again, if your neighbour believes that the lease says the pipe isn't their responsibility, they might fight this.

And to be clear - responsibility for repairing the pipe is based entirely on what the lease says. It's not based on what you or the freeholder or your neighbour think is sensible, or whatever.

Arguments about who is affected, whose side it's on etc aren't relevant - unless it says that in the lease.

m0bov

Suggest you speak to your insurance legal helpline. Lease or no lease, if the neighbour refuses to cooperate, whatever the ownership is, an injection will be needed to force them to comply.

You could also speak with environmental health.

lincroft1710

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82064918#Comment_82064918

Do you mean "injunction" rather than "injection"?

martindow

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82065010#Comment_82065010

With their irrational behaviour it could need both

WIAWSNB

SiaR123, are the 4 properties purpose-built, or a conversion of a large house? Either way, I'd be surprised if the responsibility for the main sewer was not shared (unless, perhaps, it was originally a semi-detached house.)

But, the Leases should be clear on this.

It seems as tho' the FHer is prepared to take action, and the stupid LHers will soon realise that they cannot avoid the issue - provided, of course, they are solely responsible.

Anyhoo, all I'll add is what m0bov mentioned above - if you do not currently have Legal Protection included in your Contents insurance, it may be worth doing so. It would appear you have misguided neighbours you may need 'Protecting' from. Actually, on that note, it may be worth suggesting to the FHer to have this cover added to the Buildings policy too, as it seems this issue could have been resolved earlier with some legal 'pressure'.