Santander freezing accounts - Unfair Terms -any ideas?

Section62

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82062088#Comment_82062088

So its possible that rather than this being something the bank spotted and passed on to the authorities, it could be the authorities were already investigating and then contacted the bank?

As the OP already has a solicitor involved it doesn't appear there's much additional help the forum can offer - I'd expect situations like this to be very case-specific, so if another forum member does have relevant experience with Santander it won't necessarily be a guide to the outcome in the OP's situation.

muddymeadow

Thank you all for your guidance.

To address the matters raised.

We took about 7000 euros to Turkey last November. I tried to get euros to use in Spain in February and found the account didn't work. I gather that the 7000 has been spent on building walls around the summerhouse land and on a septic tank. I have seen photos. The remainder is put aside towards rebuilding the summerhouse and getting the planning and other permissions they need. If the USA bombed their town again and caused our friends to become refugees, then I would not object to them using the money for more immediate purposes. As Iranian money is about 10 times undervalued we can help our friends and get the occasional use of a summerhouse in a nice area (hopefully) for not much money in UK terms.

The bulk of our money was saved for our own use.

If there was really an National Crime Agency investigation on who the money was going to they could have asked me and I could have asked our friends. Either the NCA has contacts in small builders merchants throughout Iran or there may be no real investigation taking place. I gather that Lloyds bank has frozen the account held by the Canary website, so there may be something targeted about this and attendance on pro Gaza demonstrations may be more relevant than we think.

We asked Santander to close our accounts and give us our money back months ago but they have refused to reply and still have our money. They have however told us they will close out credit card but only as a way of threatening us with court action if we don't pay the £88 outstanding, (which we couldn't pay as our accounts were frozen).

The 31 days for the NCA investigation has long expired and we have not been notified of anything from any court. As our solicitor was charging £600 an hour and as Santander is keeping our money, we now prefer to do things ourselves if possible. Any idea how I could get the details of whether there have been any court cases or any are planned? Hopefully we are not dealing with a secret court system?

dunstonh

If there was really an National Crime Agency investigation on who the money was going to they could have asked me and I could have asked our friends. 

Back in my banking days, the first the individual knew about it is when the police arrested them in the banking hall. The police had camped out in the branch all morning, waiting for them to arrive. There had been about six months' worth of investigations up to that point.

Back then, the money didn't get frozen.

Momanns

The 31 days is only a moratorium for a DAML SAR where the NCA have not given consent. There is no timeframe for an NCA or law enforcement investigation. Spending money on a solicitor at this point is also a waste of money.

Any idea how I could get the details of whether there have been any court cases or any are planned? Hopefully we are not dealing with a secret court system?

There is no secret court system, there is the possibility you/the accounts/the Iranian nexus is under investigation - there is no way of you knowing and no open-source or available court records will provide this information.

Your attendance at a pro Gaza rally is a red herring. Given the information available, it's clear this relates to the circumstances outlined previously.

For UK nationals to fly to Turkey and hand cash to Iranian nationals would be considered highly irregular by most UK banks. I do agree the time period is rather a long time and indicative of some sort of Restraint/Freezing Order but not necessarily.

Conscious none of this helps you get your money back or provides any real answers but this is a strange situation and I have seen accounts frozen for much less.

masonic

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82062481#Comment_82062481

"The 31 days for the NCA investigation has long expired and we have not been notified of anything from any court. As our solicitor was charging £600 an hour and as Santander is keeping our money, we now prefer to do things ourselves if possible. Any idea how I could get the details of whether there have been any court cases or any are planned? Hopefully we are not dealing with a secret court system?"

You should have been notified of any Account Freezing Order at your last known address (which you'd hope would be correct and supplied by the bank), so it is puzzling why you've not received anything. You need to be notified as you have the right to challenge the order. Since it's been 4 months, you'd expect for there to be a second order made around now assuming the first was for the typical 3 months.

muddymeadow

Many thanks Masonic

No, we have had no notification of any court action from anyone. We have lived at this address for about 20 years and Santander write to us here. Their letters usually take 10 days, compared with 3 for other banks.

Something may be happening as the car tax people have messaged my wife saying that her account has been closed. Santander hasn't told her.

I think it is harassment, but we will see if they come up with a plausible reason for keeping our money from us.

jimjames

For UK nationals to fly to Turkey and hand cash to Iranian nationals would be considered highly irregular by most UK banks

Yes this certainly isn't the case of the average UK citizen complaining the bank have frozen their account for no reason. OP - I have sympathy with you, it really is quite scary what can happen behind the scenes for actions that we might personally consider as helping friends out.

muddymeadow

Thank you Jimjames.

Whilst it is always good to meet our Iranian friends, being in our 70's we find the trip a bit wearing and would prefer not to have the burden of carrying cash. This is only necessary because Santander refuse to allow transfers to any Iranian, irrespective of where they live. I have this in writing from Santander, (twice). I would have thought it against UK race discrimination legislation but the Financial Ombudsman Service supported the bank on the basis that our friends were not living in the UK.

dunstonh

This is only necessary because Santander refuse to allow transfers to any Iranian, irrespective of where they live. 

Even where a payment could in theory be structured lawfully to a non‑sanctioned individual in Iran (for example via a regulated money transfer business), the overlay of US secondary sanctions is crucial. US sanctions on Iran apply directly to US persons and to US‑dollar clearing, and “secondary” measures can target non‑US banks that facilitate certain Iran‑related transactions, even outside the US. A number of European and UK banks have previously been hit with very large US fines for breaching Iran sanctions, which has made them extremely conservative about anything touching Iran.

I would have thought it against UK race discrimination legislation but the Financial Ombudsman Service supported the bank on the basis that our friends were not living in the UK.

Nothing to do with race discrimination. The Financial Ombudsman Service was totally correct in supporting the bank.

Only a few years ago, the Financial Times (following Bloomberg News) reported that Lloyds and Santander were covertly moving money around in a sanctions evasion scheme backed by Iran's intelligence services. They had to carry out a thorough investigation to make sure they were not in breach of any U.S. sanctions against Iran. It's things like this which makes the banks more cautious about dealing with the one in a million client like yourself.

masonic

So before all of this, they wrote to you twice asking you not to do the thing you did that apparently caused them to freeze the account?

And in response, you circumvented the blocks on the accounts you were asked not to send money to by withdrawing cash and hand-delivering it?

In that case, I expect when this is over, they will withdraw banking services permanently. In fact, I suspect they are as keen to do this as presumably you will be to get away from them. It is therefore highly probable that you are being forced to remain in a customer relationship (of sorts) by an ongoing investigation that transcends Santander's offices.