Advice on Tariffs

BlissfulPanda74

Hi all!


Currently with EDF, my current tariff comes to and end 30 June 2026 and I've found one that doesn't completely wipe the floor with costs (I've recently been made redundant so trying to stretch the pennies until I find another job!). A few friends have suggested Octopus as they've had fantastic service with them.

My main query is this: my 2 bed flat runs on Economy 7 electricity. We have storage heaters which haven't been used since we moved in. The living room has a bar heater and the bathroom has a wall mounted fan heater, both used as sparingly as possible in the winter. Typically, the electricity sees more usage in the daytime and higher usage in the winter. The summer sees us in credit for 4-5 months in time for the winter.

1) Would we benefit from a smart meter, especially being Economy 7?

2) Should I be more concerned about day/night rates or standing charges? I'll give 2 examples of tariffs from both EDF and Octopus that have been quoted to me:

Octopus 12M fixed:
Day rate - 29.91p per kWh // Night rate - 12.54p per kWh // SC - 54.39p per day // £142.79 monthly estimate

EDF Fixed Jul27:
Day rate - 30.96p per kWh // Night rate - 12.37p per kWh // SC - 51.42p per day // £154.59 monthly estimate

Any advice or experience with any of the above will be hugely appreciated!

P.S. Apologies for the super long post!

Sam_666

• 1)Do you understand what smart meter is?
  2) you should focus on annual cost, check few comparison sites
  
  You say you want to save money, but never used storage heater?!!!
  Do you know how expensive is to use "bar heater" and wall fan heather?

WiserMiser

Welcome to the forum.

The bad news is that you're doing everything wrong. The good news is that you should be able to be warmer and pay less if you make changes. As you're already on E7 there's no need to get a smart meter.

There's no point in having E7 if you don't use storage heaters. The day rate on E7 is even more expensive than single rate. (I assume you can't get gas?) You may save a bit on the kWh rate if you run an immersion heater overnight but this is likely to be wiped out by the costly day rate used by everything else.

You should use the storage heaters on E7. Keep monthly meter readings and consider switching to single rate (same tariff and supplier) in the summer when you switch off the NSHs. Many suppliers will happily bill both registers at the same rate but you'll probably have to call or email them.

Are they modern High Heat Retention heaters (with a fan and LCD screen) or the old Box of Bricks ones with two knobs?

After a year, work out your annual consumption in kWh from actual meter readings 12 months apart (never estimates) then calculate the annual cost including standing charges and VAT. That ££ figure is the one to compare.

BlissfulPanda74

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82051900#Comment_82051900

When we first moved in, I was lead to believe that storage heaters were more expensive to run in the long term? On top of that, the one in the hallway can't be turned on as it sets the fire alarm off.

In terms of gas, without giving away my location on a public forum, I live above a retail unit and these flats were built without a gas supply back in the 60s, possibly earlier. The flat is purely electricity and water. The storage heaters we have have either one or two dials on them, so quite old.

I always send monthly readings out and keep a record of said readings, which has helped tremendously in knowing what is being spend and during what time of the day.

WiserMiser

Who told you storage heaters were more expensive? You were seriously misled. For room heating, virtually nothing is more expensive than day rate electricity. Even worse when it's E7 day rate.

• Do you own or rent?
• Is it your 'forever' home or just for the next few years?
• Is gas available in the area?

The answers will determine the best way to proceed.

A storage heater shouldn’t set off the fire alarm. When does the alarm go off, is it immediately when the storage heater starts charging around 10:30pm but is still cold, or is it later on when it's warmed up?

I'm wondering whether the culprit is a convector heater rather than a storage heater. That would explain the one knob and being told they're more expensive to run. Dust can accumulate on the heating elements when they're not used, and this gets burned off the first time it's used in the winter. There's often a burning smell and this can easily trigger a nearby fire alarm.

Can you tell us the make and model number of the heater? If it's something you could pick up by yourself, or if it has a grille at the top and bottom it's unlikely to be an old-style storage heater.

BlissfulPanda74

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82052045#Comment_82052045

We rent our flat. The estate agent manages the property on behalf of the landlord. To be fair to the landlord, he has had things fixed/electrics upgraded (which was mandatory regardless). However, getting him to do some heavy lifting when it comes to getting something like storage heaters would seem like asking too much. We've already had to bring up damp/mould in some rooms, so I've had to treat whatever I can where I can and keep the rooms aired out, even in the winter.

I'll probably be 6ft under before I get my own home, despite being the only out of myself and my partner to actually do any saving. Bit grim, but true! Been in the same flat for nearly 20 years.

I believe my next door neighbours tried to get gas installed in their flat, but nothing has come of that by the looks of things. Presumably due to funding or location.

Scot_39

Firstly, sorry about the bad news on the job front (it doesn't sound like you volunteered).

In general unless all costs are going in the same direction as a rule - you kind of really need to do the maths - or let a comparison site do it on your behalf.

Its easy to balance say 2 - like the 3p extra on SC buys you 3x1p extra on EDF day rate - but its more difficult when being in E7 mix.

For £5-10 a month - I'd look for flexibility and good CS - oh and dont forget - if your switching to them - and have friends with them - make sure you get a referral code - iirc Octopus is worth £50 to you both.

Are you sure there both using the exact same peak and off peak figures - Octopus is only cheaper on day rate - and only c1p/kWh - so the £12 a month - is c1px1200 kWh (plus) actual energy use ?

£150 month - for me that's really quite high

For me - there is something wrong with those numbers and your implied description of being careful with heating - as £150 a month - £1800 per year - is not normal for low use electric.

Did you use you actual last years energy measurements for those quotes ?

(1 person, 2 bed mid terrace home, e10 - more expensive than e7 - sub £900pa until July inc, just over after - using around the new Ofgem all electric median TDCV coming in next week)

Is this an old tenement style flat - with big windows and high ceilings or a modern build ?

Even at the current median TDCV 3900kWh pa - c42% off peak presumed - the Ofgem all electric PC2 cap is only £1106, about to go to £1161(*) on Wed.

Your 50%+ above that.

That 3900 kWh dropping to 3400 kWh after July 1st.

And it does also make me worry that your paying the day rate premium on a lot of your current use - think current SR average around the 25p vs the 30-31p day rates quoted.

Those 5-6p really matter if multiplying by 100s or based on £1800pa more likely 1000s kWh per year.

Your Use Profile might be about to change

If your going to heat your flat all day (again give redundancy maybe more likely - hopefully not for long if looking for another placement) - then you might find NSH a cheaper way to keep a low ambient 24/7 - even if have to boost a bit in late evening.

But yes - maybe as you have in past - others not in all day - often find them - particularly older models - wasteful in that respect - heating most by early morning and when not in etc. They certainly dont suit everyone.

Do you know what models of NSH are fitted ? More modern lot 20 and HHR NSH are pretty controllable by comparison to my old dial models.

Other big uses - hot water etc

I may have missed it but - do you have an immersion heater and largish tank for hot water ?

Does that feed your shower with hot water - or does it do it's own hot water heating ?

(My shower isnt tank fed - so if I shower off peak it costs me 30p at E10 off peak rates - if I shower at peak - it costs me 50p.)

Most people concentrate on space heating - but for me hot water is around a third of my annual hot water use. And thats just hot water for one - for two or more - especially in a modern efficient flat - sparingly heated - hot water alone could well take you over the e7 cheaper than single rate threshold.

If your going to stick to not using the NSH - see (**) then a smart upgrade could well be worth it - even on SR - but perhaps an alternative TOU.

My sister was skeptical - but now gets 8 hrs half price at the weekend - it was 2 4 hr blocks - but now you can choose alternatives.

(**) Lastly word of caution - does the term E7 "restricted" power ring a bell

Also beware - your NSH but also your hot water tank might be controlled by the current meter providing a time restricted output specifically for them - on e7 only live for 7 hours - typically overnight - and capping use based on their own thermostats - no individual timers etc to stop that thermostat cycling power back on.off all day.

If not other ways to perhaps tell - if a single meter currently - if so does it have 4 or 5 meter tails - or easier if its a remote meter - does your flat have 1 or 2 consumer units - one for normal - one for NSH or NSH and hot water tank ?

And thats something you could ed up needing wiring mods - to resolve if you switch meters in future.

But the chances are you might find something cheaper than SR if can go TOU and dont have to worry about restricted meter outputs.

WiserMiser

Please note that I updated my previous post.

Even though you don't own the property, it's probably worth buying some High Heat Retention NSHs, e.g. Dimplex Quantum. They're likely to be the least worst option in your case if Gas Central Heating or a heat pump isn't realistic

You could even ask the landlord for a contribution towards the capital cost because you'd be improving his property; the worst that can happen is that he says No.

QrizB

1) Would we benefit from a smart meter, especially being Economy 7?

If you were to get a smart meter, you'd be eligible for Snug Octopus. This is a cheaper tariff than Octopus's regular Economy 7 and is intended for customers with smart meters and storage heaters.

Tariffs vary by region but in Southern (my region) they're offering:

• Day - 27.86p/kWh
• Night - 9p/kWh
• Standing charge - 47.71p/day

You can check your regional tariff by entering your postcode here:

https://octopus.energy/smart/snug-octopus/

BlissfulPanda74

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82052129#Comment_82052129

After you mentioned the edit, I went back to look. The estate agent said that the previous tenant hadn't long moved out and of course everything had been cleaned. First week we moved in (Oct 2008), we tried the storage heater in the hallway, had no noticeable dust from what we could tell, and it set the alarm off. Most likely gave the upstairs neighbour a fright!

I've been through the tenancy inventory and can give you a brand name but not a model number until the morning. Quoting directly from the inventory in front of me:

Hallway - Honeywell Storage heater (it has Chidwell above the small dial on the heating control)
Living room - Creda Wall mounted storage heater.
- 3 bar heater Dimplex Economiser
Bedroom 2 - Dimplex Wall mounted electric heater

WiserMiser

It all sounds very suspicious.

• Honeywell never made storage heaters.
• Storage heaters aren't wall mounted. They may be secured to the wall to stop them being pushed or falling over, but the weight is taken by floor. Sounds like the Creda is a panel or convector heater that runs on expensive daytime electricity rather than stored overnight heat at the E7 cheap rate.

Probably a cheapskate landlord who bought cheap non-storage heaters to reduce his capital expenditure, knowing that the high bills for ever would be your problem, not his.

How do you heat your hot water, an immersion heater? is it sitched by the meter or controlled by a local timer?

If you don't have genuine storage heaters for most of your heating, you probably need to switch to single rate when the cold weather starts. Do the sums every week to compare the costs of E7 and single rate and change over when the break even point is reached.