Distance Selling Query

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82048106#Comment_82048106

I think it's the word complaint that is causing the issue here, it's just a webform that will ask what happened and what you would like to be done, the matter should be handled by a better level of customer service resulting in a better response and should that not be the case you don't then have to submit further contact to start a "complaint"

For Section 75 you don't have to use the bank's processes at all, you can just send a letter before action then if needed file small claims should you wish. (I think I previously asked A_Geordie if not using the banks communication process would mean not complying with the procedure rules and (again I think) they said it would not mean such).

Grumpy_chap

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82048168#Comment_82048168

"As you have stated, you wish to cancel the order prior to delivery. We accept your cancellation and
can confirm that the motorcycle has been released from reservation and returned to sale.
As discussed at the time of purchase, the £250 payment secured the motorcycle and removed it
from sale whilst the balance payment was awaited. The sales order provided to you at the time of
purchase clearly states that deposits on cancelled purchases are non-refundable."

This is critical wording.

As discussed upthread, if the £250 was a "reservation fee" then it simply might not be refundable. If the £250 was a "deposit" then you should ordinarily expect that to be refundable, assuming remote purchase (which appears to be the case here)

The exact detailed terminology and context (taken as a whole) in the initial order agreement really needs to be read in full.

However, the garage has been inconsistent with their terminology in the e-mail shared by the OP. What the garage cannot do is take a deposit and then redefine that after the event as a reservation fee.

The CC have processed chargeback. I suspect the garage will challenge the chargeback or not challenge and then pursue the OP via legal remedies.

S75 will not commence until the chargeback process has concluded.

As others have said, I am not sure which chargeback ground will have been used. I wonder whether "refund not received" is being interpreted / attempted on the basis that the order has been cancelled and the OP therefore legally due refund under CCR remote purchase so the supplier's agreement that a refund is required becomes unnecessary.

born_again

As others have said, I am not sure which chargeback ground will have been used. I wonder whether "refund not received" is being interpreted / attempted on the basis that the order has been cancelled and the OP therefore legally due refund under CCR remote purchase so the supplier's agreement that a refund is required becomes unnecessary

There is not a chargeback that covers CCR

Refund not received requires proof that the retailer has actually refunded via the Visa/Mastercard system (Technical fault in processing)

eskbanker

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82048286#Comment_82048286

It's because the word 'complaint' is a significant defined term in the context of the regulated financial services industry, so has to relate to an identifiable issue with what a regulated firm has or hasn't done, rather than being some sort of escalation method to have a routine processing issue dealt with by a different team than would otherwise be the case.

An s75 claim isn't in itself a complaint, but if it isn't dealt with in an adequate way then that leaves the bank open to a legitimate complaint thereafter. As you say, s75 isn't really a process anyway, it's a piece of legislation allowing the customer to pursue the institution, and so there's no obligation to follow a bank's preferred process.

On the question of whether FOS levies case fees for vexatious complaints, their current site clarifies that charges apply only once a complaint reaches the actual investigation stage - they used to publish a stat that about one in six are weeded out before that but I don't see it there anymore.

BACKTOBACK

To drip feed a little more information lol. This is the wording from the email sent by the dealer after the deposit was paid which had the invoice attached. There is clearly talk of a deposit here before i cancelled…

Thank you for your order this morning. I have attached your invoice showing the deposit paid and the remaining balance of £8,500.
As we discussed, we need to complete a few security checks because you are paying the whole balance over the phone.
Could you please send me pictures of the following:

1. Driving licence.
2. Selfie with driving licence
3. Three utility bills dated in the last 3 months.
   As we agreed, we will deliver the bike to you on Tuesday 16th

___

Surely this would meet the legal definition of a deposit on a remote sale. In no way was it a reservation fee paid while i take time to decide on the purchase?

Okell

I wouldn't worry whether the payment was a deposit or a reservation fee.

From what you've told us I'd say it was 95 - 99% certain it was a deposit - otherwise why would the dealer refer to it as a deposit and refer to the balance still to be paid? [Edit: I posted this opinion before realising you had deleted a post containing text from the dealer trying to claim it was a reservation fee. don't think it changes my mind]

You now need to wait for the outcome from TSB.

In the event the dealer challenges TSB's credit back to you and it is reversed, you just need to know that you then go back to TSB and tell them to process a s75 claim for you

Okell

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82048109#Comment_82048109

@BACKTOBACK - what is your answer to this ^ ?

Okell

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82048361#Comment_82048361

"As you have stated, you wish to cancel the order prior to delivery. We accept your cancellation and
can confirm that the motorcycle has been released from reservation and returned to sale.
As discussed at the time of purchase, the £250 payment secured the motorcycle and removed it
from sale whilst the balance payment was awaited. The sales order provided to you at the time of
purchase clearly states that deposits on cancelled purchases are non-refundable."

Sorry Grumpy, but where have you got that wording from?

Have I missed it?

[Edit: In any case wouldn't that wording be unenforceable? It's ambiguous in that it calls the payment a deposit but also seems to imply ex post facto that it was a reservation fee - but doesn't explicitly say so - and it also tells a porkie - ie that deposits on cancelled distance purchases are non-returnable. That simply isn't true and is probably an offence under the digital etc etc legislation.

I am also relying on the OP being truthful when he says there was never any mention of a reservation fee over the phone, just an agreed sale and delivery date plus payment of a deposit. (Of course if the dealer has a recording of the conversation saying something different…)

Also, of course the 'bike will be released and returned to sale if the OP cancels. doesn't mean any reservation fee rather than a deposit was ever paid]

Grumpy_chap

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82048688#Comment_82048688

Aaaah, that wording is from the post I linked (comment 82048168, by the OP at 07:13 this morning, 26/06/2026) where the OP shared a rather long letter from the dealer which explained the dealer's position on the refund not being allowed. I now note that the link does not work and only goes to "comment not found".

Looking up through the thread, that post, which did seem very useful and contained clear content, has been deleted from the thread. However, as both you and I have noted the message from the dealer appears to be inconsistent (at best) as to whether the £250 was "reservation fee" or "deposit".

Hence my suggestion to the OP to go back and look in finite detail at exactly the text used earlier in the process. It makes a difference whether the £250 is "reservation fee" (not refundable) or "deposit" (which I ordinarily expect is refundable for distance purchase). Also, the dealer cannot go back after the event and pick the definition that suits them - it has to be one or the other from the outset.

I note the OP returned after I had commented and, by their own admission, drip fed some more information which seems to better-support the OP's narrative.

It makes it very difficult for us to advise the OP if the information being shared is incomplete and / or the OP is only sharing facts which support their desired outcome.

I feel it is likely now that the dealer will not contest the chargeback, which will close down the S75 route, but the dealer may, if they can establish that the £250 was genuinely a "reservation fee" (especially if they have recorded phone call from the payment being made) and seek the sum via small-claims.


BACKTOBACK Posts:194 Forumite 

 Today at 1:26PM edited Today at 1:27PM

To drip feed a little more information lol. This is the wording from the email sent by the dealer after the deposit was paid which had the invoice attached. There is clearly talk of a deposit here before i cancelled…


Thank you for your order this morning. I have attached your invoice showing the deposit paid and the remaining balance of £8,500.
As we discussed, we need to complete a few security checks because you are paying the whole balance over the phone.
Could you please send me pictures of the following:

Driving licence.

Selfie with driving licence

Three utility bills dated in the last 3 months.
As we agreed, we will deliver the bike to you on Tuesday 16th

___

Surely this would meet the legal definition of a deposit on a remote sale. In no way was it a reservation fee paid while i take time to decide on the purchase?

Okell

Ah.

Thanks Grumpy

(One of the features bugs in the new editor is that I presume you originally linked to the OP's post, but when that was deleted the link then pointed to the next chronological post which is one of the lunatic's - hence I couldn't follow what you were talking about.

Bad form people deleting posts rather than editing)