Seeking permission to convert the loft

pred02

I am currently selling my flat, which is held on a share of freehold basis.

The building contains two flats. I own the upper flat together with the demised loft space and roof above it. The owner of the ground floor flat is the other freeholder.

My buyers are asking that, before exchange, I obtain confirmation from the other freeholder that they would consent to a future loft conversion.

I have a good relationship with the other freeholder, who does not live at the property, but I am unsure whether this is a reasonable request at this stage. No loft conversion is currently proposed and no formal application for consent has been made.

Is it normal or reasonable for a buyer to require a seller to obtain this type of consent before exchange, or is this something the buyers would typically need to pursue themselves after completion if and when they decide to undertake the works?

TroubledTarts

What kind of consent, written or verbal?

Without any plans etc the best you can hope for us a "yep, don't see why not"

subjecttocontract

It seems a rather strange request. With no plans available, no planning permission sought and no details of when, how, what is proposed etc it would be very difficult for the other leaseholder to give any consent. If it were me, I'd want a financial payment for giving consent as even then it they wanted it in writing there would be legal fees paid by your buyer. If they just want a verbal ok to the effect that they would be open to discussion of the buyers proposals then that might be possible. Are they looking for something in writing ?

Albermarle

My buyers are asking that, before exchange, I obtain confirmation from the other freeholder that they would consent to a future loft conversion.

Do you know what kind of loft conversion? Are they thinking about converting it properly to a bedroom? This is a proper construction project, needing changes to the roof structure, strengthening the floor, new staircase etc

Sometimes can mean changes to the roof itself. May not need planning permission, but will certainly need Building control supervision and sign off.

Or maybe they just want to fit some loft ladders and board it out- maybe put a window in and just use it for storage.

I would guess the other freeholder will be more relaxed about the latter than the former.

subjecttocontract

If a potential buyer gave me such an impossible request I'd be reminding them that the property for sale is a flat as described. Any future plans they might have to extend are their concern......you cannot realistically give them what they want.

eddddy

pred02 said

Is it normal or reasonable for a buyer to require a seller to obtain this type of consent before exchange, or is this something the buyers would typically need to pursue themselves after completion if and when they decide to undertake the works?

What does the lease say about alterations to the demised parts of the building?

For example, does the lease say:

• a) No alterations, or
• b) No alterations with the consent of the freeholder, or
• c) No restrictions on alterations to the demised parts of the building

If it's option b, the law says that consent cannot be unreasonably withheld anyway.

Is there any harm in explaining the situation to your joint freeholder, and asking them what they are willing to say? Examples they might be might be happy with:

• I would give consent subject to x, y and z (e.g. surveyor's report, structural engineer's report, planning consent, building control sign-off.)

or

• I have no objection in principle to the loft being converted, subject to revewing the plans with the new leaseholder

If you reply with something equivalent to "I'm not going to discuss this with you", that might make the buyer think there's a problem with the joint freeholder, and they might be more tempted to walk away.

With hindsight, perhaps you should have got all the relevant consents for the loft conversion before putting the flat on the market - then it could have been marketed as something like a "2 bedroom 1 bathroom flat, with consent to create a 3rd bedroom and 2nd bathroom".

pred02

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82036039#Comment_82036039

It says it needs consent of the landlord - i.e. other freeholder.

BikingBud

With hindsight, perhaps you should have got all the relevant consents for the loft conversion before putting the flat on the market - then it could have been marketed as something like a "2 bedroom 1 bathroom flat, with consent to create a 3rd bedroom and 2nd bathroom".

And would the market (current buyers) sustain the increased value?

If you advise that yes you can do that but it will take X months and increase the price by Y thousand pounds what then?

I feel the buyers are wanting their cake and to eat it.

eddddy

pred02 said

It says it needs consent of the landlord - i.e. other freeholder.

So realistically, the landlord/freeholder has very limited grounds to refuse consent.

Grounds for refusing consent would be things like: affecting the structural integrity of the building, increased risk of fire spreading - and building regulations should address those things.

(Or if the loft conversion somehow reduces the value of the freehold - but that's unlikely.)

As I suggested, in your position, I would go as far as I reasonably could to keep the buyer happy - and get the 'most positive' statement possible from the joint freeholder. (Maybe the joint freeholder won't care too much, and just give blanket consent for the conversion.)

eddddy

In another thread, you said:

Isn't it an overstep to be asking for this in a share of freehold prior to exchanging contracts? What can the other freeholder approve if there are no details about the scope of work, timeframes etc. And even if he says yeah, will the other freeholder not have to approve the works formally when there is a proper request?

Just to give perspective, freeholder consent could simply be one page with one sentence saying something like:

"We give consent to the leaseholder to convert the loft into living accommodation" - and signed by both joint freeholders.

If the joint freeholders refused to give consent because of things like "Timescales" or "We don't like the layout", a tribunal would probably say that's not reasonable, and override the joint freeholders.

Or if the joint freeholders ask for unreasonable amount of details, a tribunal would say that's not reasonable either

Or if the joint freeholders impose unreasonable conditions, a tribunal would say that's not reasonable either

So I suspect the motivation behind the buyer's question is something like:

• "Is the joint freeholder going to be difficult and try to refuse consent for daft reasons, meaning I have to go to tribunal - or is the joint freeholder going to be reasonable about this?"

And I guess that the more 'comfort' you can give the buyer, the more likely they are to proceed.

pred02 said

Quite frankly I am fed up with the solicitors, buyers ready to tell everyone to go home.

Obviously, it's your choice. You could dump this buyer, and you might find another less demanding buyer - or you might not.

If you want somebody to buy something from you that costs hundreds of thousands of pounds, I think you have to be prepared to 'play the game'.

subjecttocontract

Now we have established that the lease states permission of the landlord is required and that this cannot be unreasonably withheld.......surely that's all the OP has to tell their buyers.