PDFSmart - underhand business practices

flaneurs_lobster

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82030894#Comment_82030894

I took the references to 'business' as marketing-speak for 'professional'.

If I'm an individual buying (or leasing, or subscribing to) a product from a business (as 99% of my purchases are) then my interaction with this company is not a "business to business" transaction and I have all the consumer rights of a UK-based individual buying an online product from a company based in Beaverton, Oregon.

born_again

PDF24 if free & a good product.

Clearly when someone asks for your card details it is to take funds. So there is a personal responsibility to find out why (7 day free trail) which is always going to roll into a further payment. 🤦‍♀️🤷‍♀️

Pollycat

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82030985#Comment_82030985

I took the references to 'business' as 'business'.

From the website:

Limited Access

Perfect for small teams getting started

Full Unlimited Access

For growing teams with advanced needs

Full Unlimited Annual Access

Tailored solutions for large organisations

Pricing plans that scale with your business

Choose the right plan for your team size. All plans include our core document management features with enterprise-grade security.

None of those statements indicate an 'individual' - at least not to me.

However, regardless of whether this is a consumer issue or B2B, the fact remains that this company offers a 7 day trial after which the price increases to £49.99 per month. That seems to be clearly stated on their website.

I have sympathy with the poster who said they cancelled within 2 hours but still struggled to get the charges refunded.

As for being an 'iffy site', they seem very clear about what charges are applicable. I can see no 'use us for free' statement. The cheapest is £1.00 for the free 7 day trial.

And it seems that alternative services can be had for free.

If one takes the time and effort to look.

flaneurs_lobster

As for being an 'iffy site', they seem very clear about what charges are applicable. I can see no 'use us for free' statement. The cheapest is £1.00 for the free 7 day trial.

I should have been clearer, I was not referring to PDFSmart specifically, rather to the set of online service providers that are returned in a search for "edit PDF".

I still assert that the definition of a "business to business" transaction is when the two parties to the trade are registered business entities.

If a "business" sells to me "an individual" then it's a consumer transaction, regardless of how many times that the website of said business states how suitable the product is for business use.

If the website were to state "we will only sell our product to businesses" or "this product is not for sale to individuals" then your argument would be more persuasive, but it doesn't.

And yes, of course one should examine the terms before entering into any agreement and I always do - I'm sure that PDFSmart's terms are prominently displayed and easy to find and understand - I've never used their product/services.

user1977

I still assert that the definition of a "business to business" transaction is when the two parties to the trade are registered business entities.

There's no requirement for businesses to be "registered" anywhere (in this context anyway).

flaneurs_lobster

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82031102#Comment_82031102

Strike the word 'registered', the assertion still stands.

But please let's not have a discussion/debate/argument about the definition of "a business" - at least not on this thread.

mikb

At one point, Maplin's high street shops, for which you did not need an account or trade-affiliation, etc. used to write " *** TRADE SALE *** " on the top of all the till receipts — as a consumer, I see that and wonder what the game is?

Some tax fiddle so we can quote Ex-VAT prices with prominence to look cheaper? Attempt to make people believe they have no consumer rights as this is a "business to business" transaction by definition (our definition, deal with it) — never had to push to find out why, but it always struck me as wrong.

You can't make it a business-business transaction unilaterally. Both ends have to be acting as a business.