Employer rounding Clock In & Out times

philng

We have just been advised our employer will start rounding clock in & out times and has given the following example:

Clock in 0702am round to 0705am

Clock out 0747pm round to 0745pm

This appears to disadvantage & under pay the staff member and any on min wage potentially pay them under min wage.

Although small over days and weeks it adds up and goes against the employee both ways.

Is this legal?

Undervalued

As far as I am aware, yes. I may be out of date but you can generally have a minimum period of account (in this case 5 mins).

Most professional services charge by the hour in six min increments (i.e a tenth of an hour) so I can't see why this should be different.

Presumably nothing stops you from not actually starting work until the moment you start being paid and to stop on the dot if you are that bothered?

QrizB

The examples you give aren't "rounding" in the generally recognised sense, as 0702 would be expected to "round" to 0700.

Marcon

Clock in 0702am round to 0705am

Clock out 0747pm round to 0745pm

This appears to disadvantage & under pay the staff member and any on min wage potentially pay them under min wage.

'Proper' rounding, which over time evens out, is acceptable. It could be they've just given unfortunate examples, but if this is being done purely as a cost saving measure (which seems likely, since an automated system is designed to handle 'hours and minutes' rather than '5 minute units' - and if the system is manual, you just ask employees to do their own 'rounding'), it wouldn't be lawful to operate a system which consistently discriminates against the employee - and would ultimately breach minimum wage requirements.

Undervalued

Unless the OP is actually being compelled to work these extra minutes unpaid I fail to see how it is discriminatory. The only time I have ever been paid on a time clock (holiday job 50+ years ago) if you had overrun by a few minutes nothing stopped you working on and being paid until the next increment and clock out then. IIRC it was 15 min increments back in the dark ages!

molerat

IIRC it was 15 min increments back in the dark ages!

I seem to remember that when I left school and started work in the local fruit packing plant in 1970. If you clocked in at 8.01 you weren't paid until 8.15.

gwynlas

From what you have described even if you clock out for breaks this would amount to less than plus or minus 10 minutes per day.

If everyone is expected to work core hours then you should be arriving at work ready to start on time and can easily ensure you finish at or very close to the correct finish time.

Whatever you should be part of a union who would have agreed to these changes.

Perhaps I am missing something so can you please advise how this leads to a loss for anyone?

SadieO

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82026478#Comment_82026478

Not if your core hours are "start between 8 and 9am, finish between 4 and 5pm" - that way, any time you start/finish work in those windows is your "correct" time.

As for how can this lead to a loss, in the example given in OP, your first 3 minutes and last 2 minutes aren't counted. So I think OP's point is, this calculation is going in the favour of the employer at both ends of the day. Not only is this unfair it is legally problematic if staff are on minimum wage.

Not arguing what's right or wrong, how to get around it or if such a minimal amount is worth worrying about*, just answering your questions genuinely!

(*Although it does rather raise the question of, it's so inconsquential, why not structure it so the employee gets 5 minutes extra pay instead of 5 minutes less?!? Funny that…🤔)

philng

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82026104#Comment_82026104

Thank you. That is exactly what they are planning to do. so the clock in time is marked forward to next 5 min slot & clock out time is marked back to last 5 min slot. So employee loses at both ends of the day.

An employee say working 556am to 256pm would not be paid 9 hrs even though that is their contracted day. They would receive 8hrs 55 so if on Min wage would effectively be paid under min wage.

Marcon

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82027622#Comment_82027622

....and it's the breach of minimum wage (and possibly their terms of employment) that makes it a problem. People reminiscing about their old days isn't relevant to current legislation.

ohreallƳ

I had managers who did this. Clock in for an 8 am start at 08:03 and pay would get docked 1/4 of an hour. Go to rest area, make coffee and settle down, manager comes in like a bull; "!!!!!! do you think you're doing"? I'll start when my pay starts, this is on you over a few minutes.

Luckily we had excellent shop stewards and management were reluctant to make a big issue as the department were all skilled workers and their knowledge and input were required by these same managers.

You guys unionised?