Neighbour's Guttering - Is it my Problem?

Grumpy_chap

At the beginning of the year the guttering at the rear of our house was spilling water everywhere, at least one failed joint and several areas where the guttering was not running level or was twisted.

We had a local tradesman attend in the first week of February and he installed new fascia board and guttering along the full length of the rear of our house. Three, maybe four, lengths of guttering connecting to the existing downpipes and to the neighbours guttering either side. We are mid-terrace. Cost about £400.

Today (6th June), one of my neighbours contacted me to say that the tradesman had damaged his guttering when installing ours so would we arrange rectification? He showed me where the first join between the straight guttering from the downpipe (at the property boundary) to the remainder of his guttering had come away.

[In case that is not clear, I will try to describe it again. The gutter runs along our roofline and connects to a downpipe at the property boundary with next door. The downpipe is shared, so next door's gutter also connects to the same downpipe. The first length of guttering along next door's roofline has then come away from the joiner, leaving a visible gap.]

The first response I gave to our neighbour was that the work was done in February and we've had significant amounts of rain since then so for him to only notice today does not really create a link to the work on our guttering. I did agree to allow him to show me the area where the guttering is not joined to the joiner. My neighbour said he felt it was for us to contact the tradesman and get this resolved. I commented that any such request will need to wait until the tradesman returns from holiday - he is currently in Portugal.

Without taking responsibility for the issue, I think I am happy enough to contact the tradesman and ask him for his thoughts. I struggle to see that the tradesman will just take this on the chin and will, almost certainly, say the work was done four months ago so the movement in the neighbour's guttering since is nowt to do with him.

If such a response is received, do I just pass that on to the neighbour, effectively saying "tough"?

Or should I not contact the tradesman in the first place?

Or, should I agree to pay the tradesman to rectify, assuming he does not willingly take this on the chin?

On the basis that the first job was competitively priced, the tradesman won't have float to absorb return for work that are not necessarily down to him. I'd imagine the cost to attend and fix just one section of gutter will be at least half of what it cost to do the full width of the rear of our house. If it was going to be just a small amount - maybe £50, maybe £100 - I might have just covered the cost for a quite life and in the interests of good relationships (with the neighbour and the tradesman). If its going to be £200 or £400 I'd not be so willing.

It's not obvious why, if this was caused in February, it would only become apparent now. It also occurs to me that the rear of the house where this guttering runs is directly south facing so the extreme hot weather might have meant expansion and contraction cycles that exceeded the normal extent of movement and led to the gap now resulting at the joiner.

What comments does any one have? Should I do something or do nothing or find a middle way?

dnpark38

Do your best not to make an enemy of your neighbour.

I would suggest you get your builder back and your neighbour and yourself arrange repair and share the cost of repair of this shared pipe.

Boohoo

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6671449/neighbours-guttering-is-it-my-problem

I would of thought the neighbours would of known before now if the gutter was leaking or had come apart.

Any photos may help advise you better.

Do you have access to a drone to have a look or a selfie stick that you could attach a mobile to and use an upstairs window to put the stick out and see if you can see the issue from it.

Jemma01

I def would bring it up to the tradesman, he might have been a smart guy who took before and after photos and can dispute any such claims.

After 4 months, he might say not my problem, but likewise he might think his job should withstand 4 months. Either way, I'd get a quote and move on from there. I'm the kind who takes photos before any job is done for my own security in case I have a dispute with the tradesman. Before and after photos are a requirement for me because I don't know much and if I need a second opinion, I've got to show them something.

Grumpy_chap

Thanks everyone for the comments.

I am certain the tradesman won't have taken photos. If he did, he will not have taken photos of the neighbours' house / roof / guttering.

I am also not sure whether it is a shared section of guttering that is now defective.

I have seen the defect so don't need to consider drones or such like. The gutter has come away at a joint.

Obviously I did not describe things well, so I have done a simple sketch which I hope will make it clearer:

I have the middle house in the terrace.

The chimney aligns with the boundary for the adjoining houses to the left and the right of my house.

The downpipe is at the boundary of the two houses.

The guttering was replaced along the length of my house (i.e. between the centre lines of the two chimneys.

The downpipe was pre-existing and the new guttering from my house joins to that existing downpipe.

The first length of guttering (about 2 m) has come away from the first joiner on the neighbours' house to the right.

Section62

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6671449/neighbours-guttering-is-it-my-problem

It's not obvious why, if this was caused in February, it would only become apparent now. It also occurs to me that the rear of the house where this guttering runs is directly south facing so the extreme hot weather might have meant expansion and contraction cycles that exceeded the normal extent of movement and led to the gap now resulting at the joiner.

Exactly that. The first really hot weather since the work was done resulting in cyclic expansion/contraction pulling the gutter out of the fitting. Quickly followed by heavy rain which makes the leak obvious enough to be spotted.

Grumpy_chap

Thanks @Section62 but am still not sure why this is linked to the work we had done. There is a fixed downpipe at the property boundary which has not moved.

We replaced the gutter up to one side of the downpipe.

The gutter on the other side of the downpipe is unchanged connected to the rest of the neighbour's guttering.

I'd like to understand this as, if it is clearly linked to what we had done, then I'll cover the cost and it is only a discussion between me and the tradesman.

Equally, if I can clearly establish it is nowt to do with me then I'll be more resilient though may pay something for a quite life / good relationships.

I guess, in a way, I have a luxury of a bit of time as I am not willing to contact the tradesman until he returns from his holiday in Portugal, so can consider the ways things might have gone wrong in the meantime. As well as any consideration to establish this as "my problem" also gives me the basis to say it is the tradesman's problem. Though, the good relationships piece also extends to wanting to keep the tradesman on side for future works - not just neighbour.

Section62

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82025819#Comment_82025819

There is a fixed downpipe at the property boundary which has not moved.

Is there a running outlet which connects your gutter to the neighbours? If so, is this screwed firmly in place or can it move side-to-side? If the position is fixed only by a clip on the downpipe then there may be enough flex in the pipe and pipe joints so the running outlet can move side-to-side. This movement may be enough to incrementally pull the neighbour's gutter apart.

There is another possibility - which is back in February when the gutter was replaced, the trader may have inadvertently pulled the neighbour's gutter out of the join. Being a couple of metres away the trader wouldn't necessarily notice this. Although it has rained since February, if the neighbour wasn't specifically checking for leaks then there may have been a leak all that time, especially if the gap in the neighbour's gutter is a high spot and the water is flowing away to downpipes in either direction. It might just be that the rain last week was enough to alert the neighbour to a problem which has been there but unnoticed since February.

Or it could be this issue has nothing to do with your work.

subjecttocontract

Plastic guttering expands in hot weather. It wasn't hot in February but has been a few times since then. The guttering can creep & move if it hasn't been fitted to allow for an expansion in hot weather and this is what I suspect may have happened. It's probably a very quick fix for the guy when you eventually get hold of him.

Grumpy_chap

Thanks - the downpipe is firmly affixed to the wall with solid brackets. The sections of gutter forming the downpipe are glued and screwed together. The gutter either side of the downpipe is fixed using the guttering clips only. Where the pipe has come away from the neighbours gutter, that is out of the clips in the guttering system.

WIAWSNB

Hi GChap.

The fitting that takes the water from the guttering and sends it down the downpipe is called a 'running outlet'. If the d/p runs down the boundary line, then presumably the r/o straddles the boundary, with half of it on each side?

Was the r/o removed to allow your new fascia board on your side? They usually have two mounting brackets, so theoretically at least one would have been on your side and hence in the way?

If so, then I think it's fair to assume the fitter's action could have something to do with the dislodged gutter - the neighb's gutter was presumably ok for years, but has now visibly popped out.

It does also suggest, tho', that the neighbour's gutter section is fractionally too short, so even if repositioned, it's likely to pop out again in time.

£400 for a new fascia and gutter is pretty good! So assuming he can do this fix from a ladder, I can't see it costing much - £50 to £100 tops, surely.

To answer your Q - if the r/o was removed, most likely the fitter moved the neighb's gutter a tad and caused this. Even if not fully removed, it could have been bumped a bit, so again the 'cause'.

I'd wait until the guy is back from his hols, and explain the situation - ask if he can pop round on his way to other jobs to assess the situation, and give a quote for sorting it. If he says "Nae prob - £20 will sort it.", then jobbie jobbed. He might, tho', determine that the neighb's gutter section is slightly too short, and repositioning it is unlikely to be a permanent solution, in which case that's for your neighbour to sort.

But, try and arrive at an 'agreement' with your neighb for the sake of good relations, even if it costs you a contribution.