EICR reports

HUMBUG

I've just had an EICR and I know it will fail because some of my electrical wiring for the sockets (in the skirting boards - which is a rule breaker) and the lighting is about 70 yrs old. Also the main fuse box is really old and there are some small wires which have fabric insulation , not rubber.

But my bathroom was refurbished back in 2001 and all the wiring for the halogen ceiling lights and the electric shower 9.5kw is not that old .

Plus my kitchen was refurbished too and all the wall sockets and wiring were newly installed at the time around 2009 , exception being 1 old wall socket located on the skirting board where my fridge is plugged into. Also the kitchen light wire is not new and maybe 50 years old .

I also had a new boiler and hot water tank installed 8 years ago which all needed new wiring . This is all in the kitchen area where the gas boiler is hidden within the cabinets while the 'hot water tank & CH control box' is in an old airing cupboard

The electrician informed me before he left that the whole house needs rewiring but I fail to understand why he didn't mention anything about the kitchen and bathroom 'newish' wiring which is only about 25 years old . He said surface trunking would be the best and "you wouldn't notice it" although I beg to differ.

Will the EICR report provide details of the wiring condition in my kitchen and bathroom as I don't want to waste money ripping out stuff that might already be safe. I'm putting my trust in the honesty of qualified electricians to not try and rip me off with an inaccurate EICR.

Do you think the cost of the EICR was quite steep at £192 (including vat) for a 1 bedroom maisonette in Greater London?

silvercar

Did you show the electric certificates for the kitchen and bathroom? Failing that, did you mention that the kitchen and bathroom had been retired?

For Greater London, I don’t think it that expensive. Although your flat is relatively small, I wouldn’t expect much less due to the area.

FreeBear

He said surface trunking would be the best and "you wouldn't notice it" although I beg to differ.

Surface trunking means having surface mounted sockets and switches. It will all stick out like a sore thumb, so on that point, you are correct.

Chasing walls for conduit and back boxes is a dirty, dusty business that requires extensive patching afterwards. There may also be walls where this is no possible (e.g. stud walls). Skirting, dado, and picture rails would also get in the way of running chases, so they may well get damaged in the process. In the process, you get the chance to add extra sockets around each room and get them up off the floor - As we get older, it saves having to bend down to plug stuff in and/or turn off sockets.

At the end of the day, only you can decide if the work is worth it, and/or if you want to decorate afterwards. But I wouldn't accept surface mounted anything…

Albermarle

Also the main fuse box is really old and there are some small wires which have fabric insulation , not rubber.

It is a bit surprising that when you had the kitchen and bathroom refurbished, that the electrician involved did not insist on a new consumer unit be installed at the same time to replace the old fuse box.

Also I think rubber coated cables would also be a red flag ( as well as fabric coated ones) . Unless you mean PVC ones which became the norm over 50 years ago. These are usually OK if they seem in good condition even if they are quite old.

chrisw

Why have you had an EICR done? Unless you are renting the house out or maybe trying to sell it, you are free to take on board or ignore any bits of the report you choose.

silvercar

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82025641#Comment_82025641

I agree with this. I live in a house from the 1930s. I’ve had the main fuse board updated and as we’ve had rooms updated the relevant circuits updated, but I haven’t bothered with a rewire. The oldest parts have Bakelite switches inside cupboards in the eaves!

Ectophile

An EICR is essentially a list of things that failed when tested/examined against the current standards (BS7671:2018 + amendments). It won't say what's good - you have to assume anything that isn't listed is good.

The results are graded:

• C3 - should be improved, but most people take a C3 as a recommendation for future work.
• C2 - not up to standard; not immediately dangerous, but you're missing a safety feature that would save you if something else happens.
• C1 - immediately dangerous; fix it now before it kills someone.

By the sound of it, you will end up with a collection of C2 failures, and I wouldn't be surprised if there were a few C1's too. The electrician may add further recommendations and observations at the end if they see fit.

A good electrician will do an EICR for you, with no expectation that you will immediately pay them to fix all the problems. There's nothing to stop you paying their fee, taking the report, and then hunting around for someone else to do the fixes.

Mr.Generous

When you see really old wiring if stripping out walls or lofts the insulation covering the wire just falls off, and sometimes already has. Fine when the wiring was left in situ but no longer connected, a very high fire / shock risk when it is still in use. A test report will find any such issues because the readings from the test equipment will reveal all. If you have wiring 70 years old get it replaced! A new mains board would almost certainly show up faults that an old fuse board wouldn't - so just changing the board can lead to constant issues, or it just won't set in the first place. Expensive job, but cheaper than a house burning down or constant call outs as more and more failures occur. The new wiring you describe may wee have been tacked onto existing unless they went all the way back to the mains board.

SystemsChange

Will the EICR report provide details of the wiring condition in my kitchen and bathroom

Yes, it should do. Then you can make your own decisions about what to update.

Do you think the cost of the EICR was quite steep at £192 (including vat) for a 1 bedroom maisonette in Greater London?

Yes, I paid £160 + vat. But that £32 extra you paid is kind of negligible if you factor in the costs of any remidial works you need - that's the pricey bit!

HUMBUG

All - many thanks for your comments.

Things have turned a bit ugly now between me and the electrician company that did the EICR. I wanted the EICR done in case I needed to sell my property quickly, so needed a clean bill of health for my electrics.

Firstly , they wouldn't send the EICR report to me via email without payment up front , so I paid it and looked at the report . Obviously, for the average person, electrical terminology can seem like another language so , on trust, I asked him for a quote for full rewiring.

I was surprised that he then emailed me a quote saying £1200 Materials, £2800 Labour = £4800 inc vat.

This is what he said on the estimate:

"Due to the age of the electrical installation, and the nature of the defects found, it is our recommendation that this property be completely rewired to comply with the current regulations and standards.

Due to access this rewire is based on a surface method using mini trunking but concealing cables as and where possible.

To rewire all the circuits, except the electric shower circuit, installing lighting and switching as per the existing positions, installing sockets as per the existing but adding new outlets as and where required. To also install replacement LED downlighters in the bathroom

A new 18th edition non-combustible distribution board will be installed incorporating SPD and RCBO protection, and all new mains earth bonding."

Again, based on trust , because he rewired my parents property several years ago, I accepted his quote.

The reason I was surprised was he didn't bother to visit to discuss a plan of the lights and wall sockets I preferred. Whether I wanted extra fittings and maybe also some idea of how much 'mini-surface trunking' was required, etc. So how did he estimate the Material & Labour costs unless he used 'like for like' but I didn't see anything on the EICR report that showed a layout of switches/sockets.

Anyhow , I asked another well recommended electrician to look at the EICR and he said the following:

"So just a quick look at the EICR, is it a rental?

Because the paperwork, it’s for a rental???
And he has put down, that the overall installation is ‘poorly’ you can’t put that down, you have to say why! Looks like the wiring is ok, apart from a n-e fault, and you need a new fuseboard. "

When I spoke to this other electrician , he said the wiring insulation results for both sockets and lights were 500 megaohm which meant my existing wiring insulation is fine .

I checked on AI and it said the following:

Yes, a reading of 500 megohms (MΩ) is an excellent result. It means the insulation on your sockets and lighting circuits is in perfect condition. Why 500 Megohms is Excellent

• Far exceeds the minimum requirement: Under the UK wiring regulations (BS 7671), the absolute minimum acceptable insulation resistance for a 230V circuit is 1 megohm (1 MΩ). Your reading is 500 times higher than the legal minimum. 
• Virtually zero current leakage: Insulation resistance measures how well the plastic coating around the electrical wires stops electricity from escaping. A reading this high proves that no current is leaking between live, neutral, or earth wires. 
• Common tester limit: Many Electrical Installation Condition Report (EICR) testing meters hit their maximum display limit at 500 MΩ or greater. When an electrician writes down "500 MΩ," it often implies the circuit is completely pristine and effectively has "infinite" resistance.

——————————————————————

This other electrician also said he's been called to do an EICR test on a house that had old and new wiring (ie. less than 10 years) and found the old wiring in better condition.

The bottom line is that there was no need for the EICR electrician company to sell me a complete wiring of the property (even with all the C2 ,C3 faults for having such an old fuse box without RCDs, proper bonding , lack of earthing for the light switches in my bathroom, etc). Yes , my report is 'Unsatisfactory' but what he says below is inaccurate and misleading:

"Aging installation in poor condition. Would recommend full rewire. See observations"

My other electrician informed me that they've been told for the last 10 years never to use the word 'poor condition' without a detailed explanation.

I therefore formally rejected the quote that I previously accepted and emailed them the following complaint.

___________________________________________________________________________________

I am writing to formally request a full refund of the £192 paid for the EICR inspection carried out at my property on 5th June' 26.

The service provided did not meet the legal standard of "reasonable care and skill" required under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 for the following reasons:

Failure to Test: The engineer failed to carry out mandatory physical testing on the circuits. 
The Schedule of Test Results shows "LIM" written across the insulation resistance and continuity sections, meaning the inspection was left incomplete.

False Presentation of Data: Your engineer verbally informed me that my wiring was "poorly" and required a full house rewire. However, the data recorded on page 11B shows a flawless Live/Earth insulation resistance reading of 500 MΩ, directly contradicting the claim that the cables are degraded.

Misleading Industry Templates: The paperwork was incorrectly processed as a "rented property" profile despite me advising you that I am owner of a 999 year lease on this property.

I have had this report reviewed by an independent NICEIC-registered electrician who has confirmed that your report is inaccurate and substandard.

Please confirm within 14 days that a full refund has been processed. 

If this is not resolved, I will escalate this matter directly to the NICEIC regulatory body and Trading Standards.

I am now going to use this new electrician to visit , look at the wiring , draw up a plan and do the necessary work. If there is any rewiring required, I'd rather use him than this other company.

Ectophile

There is a lot more to an EICR than insulation resistance tests.

I guess you don't like the results of the one you got and would like another one that doesn't look too hard.

There should be only one type of EICR, whatever the property is used for. Unless it's a "drive by" EICR for dodgy landlords (like the MOT with no advisories you get with an old car from a back street car dealer).