Storing a Will with HMCTS - do I need to ring bind the Will ?

sky_rat

I have created a Will using Which…

https://whichwills.which.co.uk/

I printed the Will on a laser printer (using standard paper) and its been signed by myself and two witnesses. I have also made a few copies to keep for myself.

Now I want to store the original Will with HMCTS….

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/store-a-will-with-the-probate-service/how-to-store-a-will-with-the-probate-service

Can I just send the Will to HMCTS or does it need to be ring bind before I send it ?

The Which will guidance says…

Once your will is complete, you should print it on durable paper. You must securely fasten the pages together, to protect against the risk that your will may be fraudulently altered (and to satisfy the Probate Registry that this has not happened). Ideally you should have it bound using a binding machine (these can be found in copy shops or in some libraries), but using staples would be acceptable. Note however that problems can arise at the Probate Registry if it appears that the staples have been tampered with, since this can raise doubts as to whether part of the will has been removed or substituted. For the same reason, it is not sensible to use paperclips.


Although I don't see how ring binding it would prevent it from being tampered with ?

RAS

Ideally, stapling before signing would have been good, as the witnesses could testify that it was in that condition when signed.

If you have any intention to photocopy for your own use, you can do so before fastening.

If you want to make a copy that could used in an emergency if the original went missing (very occasionally when sent to probate), copy after fastening together. Any discrepancy in fastening leads to queries, evidence of creases indicates a secure document.

If you want to delay probate by months and cause an investigation, remove the staples or other fastening, copy and refasten. They'll spot every small discrepancy in alignment.

By the way, apart from the obvious registers no longer accessible for public review, amongst the gems I've used in family history is an original paper from 1592. It was in an estate archive, in pristine condition 420 years later and probably viewed a handful of times since being annotated 2 centuries ago. I suspect paper will outlast many of the current storage formats.

poseidon1

Ring binding is an obvious tamper risk and clearly cannot be construed as securely fastened.

Follow the instructions for securely fastening the document if you don't want your executors facing the risk of complications when time comes to prove the will.

In the meantime see blog below, I suspect you have already committed a minor breach by executing the will prior to securely binding it. Did you paper clip the pages prior to execution by any chance?

https://harpendenwills.co.uk/blog/f/how-should-wills-be-bound

Emmia

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6671330/storing-a-will-with-hmcts-do-i-need-to-ring-bind-the-will

The guidance isn't for ring binding, it's for comb binding or wiro binding, like this wiro bound book

sky_rat

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82024869#Comment_82024869

Some of this stuff seems so strange.

For example, the witnesses are a similar age to me. So assuming we all live to a long age and the will is executed when I die, how would the witnesses remember if a will they signed 30+ years ago was stapled (especially with illnesses like dementia etc) ? Or maybe they wont be around to testify either.

You say if I want to make a copy then I should fasten after copying, but then the copy wouldn’t have the witness signatures if it has to be fastened before the witnesses signature ?

Does the HMCTS not fasten the pages when they receive the will ?

Presumably now that I have a signed Will it is all legal, in the event I did die before sending it off to be stored ?

The guidance did not say anything about securely fastening the pages before signing…

What to do with your will
This document explains how to prepare and sign your will. It also gives some advice on what to do with your will in the future. This section is not part of your will and you should separate it from the previous pages.

Preparing your will
Once your will is complete, you should print it on durable paper. You must securely fasten the pages together, to protect against the risk that your will may be fraudulently altered (and to satisfy the Probate Registry that this has not happened). Ideally you should have it bound using a binding machine (these can be found in copy shops or in some libraries), but using staples would be acceptable. Note however that problems can arise at the Probate Registry if it appears that the staples have been tampered with, since this can raise doubts as to whether part of the will has been removed or substituted. For the same reason, it is not sensible to use paperclips.

Signing your will
You must be present throughout the process. Two witnesses must be present when you sign your will. The witnesses must be over 18 and of sound mind.
The following may not act as a witness:
•Someone who is blind or partially sighted
•Someone who lacks mental capacity
Also, you should not ask any of the following to act as a witness:
•Someone receiving a gift (a beneficiary) in your will
•Someone who is married to (including a party to a same-sex marriage) or a civil partner of a beneficiary in your will
•Remoter family members who might otherwise benefit under a partial intestacy
This is because if a beneficiary or the spouse/civil partner of a beneficiary acts as a witness, they will automatically lose their right to the gift made to them by your will or their entitlement under an intestacy.

Procedure
Read through your will carefully to make sure it reflects your wishes.
You must sign your will in ink on the last page where indicated in the presence of your two witnesses, who must then also sign and complete their names, addresses and occupations in the spaces provided. You could also initial the bottom of each page in the presence of the two witnesses, who would then do the same - this is not essential, but could help to avoid problems later if there any issues with the way in which the pages have been fastened together.

If a correction has been made on a page, you must initial alongside it in pen in the margin, in the joint presence of the two witnesses. Each witness must then similarly initial it in turn, in your presence.
Date the will on the cover page and on the last page in the spaces provided.
Once signed, do not make any alterations or additions to your will. Do not pin, staple, paperclip or in any other way attach anything to your will.

Storing your will
You should keep your will somewhere safe and tell a close friend or relative (preferably an executor) where you have put it.
Alternatively, the Probate Registry can store your will for a fee. Information about this service can be found online at s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/hmctsformfinder/pa007-eng.pdf
Changes to your will
If, once the will has been signed, your address changes or an address or name of a person you have referred to in your will changes, it is not usually necessary, for that reason alone, to change your will. It is recommended, however, that you place a separate note of any changes of this nature with your will.

QrizB

> The guidance did not say anything about securely fastening the pages before signing…

In the instructions you have quoted above, "binding" is part of preparing your will and comes before signing.

RAS

Have you actually signed your will? If so, were your witnesses present when you signed?

As for future issues if there are queries.

If there are witnesses confirming actions were taken, in the right order, well and good.

If the witnesses have died or are incompacitated, your executors have problems. Not necessarily insurmountable but it could take ages.

Keep_pedalling

Some of this stuff seems so strange.

For example, the witnesses are a similar age to me. So assuming we all live to a long age and the will is executed when I die, how would the witnesses remember if a will they signed 30+ years ago was stapled (especially with illnesses like dementia etc) ? Or maybe they wont be around to testify either.

You say if I want to make a copy then I should fasten after copying, but then the copy wouldn’t have the witness signatures if it has to be fastened before the witnesses signature ?

Does the HMCTS not fasten the pages when they receive the will ?

Presumably now that I have a signed Will it is all legal, in the event I did die before sending it off to be stored ?

It is highly unlikely that a witness will be required to testify decades after signing that is only likely to happen if the will is contested and was made close to the time of death. A very old will is more likely to have other issue as that is far to long to leave a will unreviewed. Some wills made 20 years ago contain trusts aimed at reducing IHT that because of changed legislation are now not only obsolete they actually the tax burden on the estate and create a lot more work and stress for the executors and beneficiaries.

We can’t see your will so have no idea if it is valid or not, the general advice on here is that unless you have a very simple will and a low value estate you should not penny pinch and use a solicitor to draft your will. This reduces the chance of crating an invalid will, gives your beneficiaries the opportunity to pursue a claim in the unlikely event that the solicitor screwed up, and the solicitor will go through all the what if situations that many of us never even think about.

NeverTooLate

Does the HMCTS not fasten the pages when they receive the will ?

When I retrieved my will stored at HMCTS (to update it), the will was still in the envelope provided to me by HMCTS with the executors names on the front, so I assume they never open the envelope. It can only be released to the testator or one of the execs.

sky_rat

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82026002#Comment_82026002

It is very simple…

• I am single
• Have a 20 year old daughter who lives with me
• Have some equity in the house but still another 20 years to pay off the mortgage :(
• Have a small amount of savings and belongings
• My will goes to
  • my daughter
    • her children (if she has any)
  • if my daughter (or her children) are not around then it is split between to my brother, sister and their siblings

Emmia

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82026744#Comment_82026744

And if all of those people predecease you?

This is the value of a solicitor drafted will, they'll ask you all the what ifs, and will ensure you have it witnessed in the right way.