Direct Debit Guarantee Scheme Question (Halifax)

Mikeyorks

exel1966 wrote: »

Down to interpretation I think as the DD scheme only states :-

"If any payment is made in error, you should contact your bank or building society who are responsible for giving you a full and immediate refund - even if the original error was made by the organisation collecting the payment"

Obviously the bank first needs to confirm the error, hence the delay which I think is reasonable. No mention of a credit being applied whilst under investigation is mentioned within the guarantee.

Sorry exel - I'm only quoting you because you've put all the relevant components in your post;)

who are responsible for giving you a full and immediate refund

.....I'm really unsure what is negotiable or questionable about that? Full and immediate means precisely that. It doesn't mean 'we need to check on it'. It doesn't mean 'we decide if there's an error'. It means - quite simply that the BACs guarantee, that all the DD players have signed up to is quite unequivocal. Namely you are entitled to your money refunding into your account immediately - whilst investigations proceed. That takes the form of your Bank refunding the money and then requesting indemnity from the initiator (via their Bank). If the initiator considers the amount is correctly due - they are at liberty to decline the indemnity and your Bank can then deduct the refund initially made. i.e - guarantee no longer applicable as no error has been made. Now up to you / initiator to sort it out.

But Banks now monotonously hide behind a smokescreen, sometimes of pure ignorance, they have thrown up. And I'm sure that's aided and abetted by customers who have demanded refunds for debits they don't recognise - to then realise they're in the wrong. But the guarantee is quite clear 'full and immediate'!

exel1966

If that was the case the scheme would be open to widespread abuse by anyone who didn't want to pay or delay a DD going out. They'd just have to claim a mistake has been made and demand an unequivocal refund. It just isn't going to happen.

Just as when a bill payment/money transfer etc goes to a wrong account those monies will not be refunded immediately even though the error is known. It has to work it's way through the system before coming back.

I think we'll agree to disagree on this !

dunstonh

Having done the job many (many) years ago, I can tell you that you do attempt to put people off. The system was abused back then just in the way exel1966 suggests.

One of the biggest hassles was that you would refund a premium, not hear anything from the company, then chase it up only to find out that they had also refunded the individual.

A little push to say try the company first is acceptable and logical in my opinion. If after that there is no luck then the scheme should kick in and be used.

jonesMUFCforever

The main problem today is that large companies like the utilities and mobile phone companies use the indemnity scheme to hide their own mistakes!
On a weekly basis I get customers coming to me saying ''British Gas (or whoever) say that I should get a refund using the d/d indemnity'' - instead of sorting out their mistakes in the first place.
Not many customers try this on in my opinion.

Mikeyorks

exel1966 wrote: »

I think we'll agree to disagree on this !

OK then ..... I'll keep quiet.

...... and henceforth think of it as the 'Direct Debit half-hearted promise'

exel1966

Agreed !

PBA

Mikeyorks wrote: »

.....I'm really unsure what is negotiable or questionable about that? Full and immediate means precisely that.

Means precisely what? As soon as the bank have investigated and confirmed the DD was incorrect, you will be refunded immediately! It would be nice if the DD guarantee was worded more clearly, instead of implying a faster level of service. You can hardly expect a bank to refund a payment before any investigation, it would be easy money for fraudsters.

Mikeyorks

PBA wrote: »

Means precisely what? .

Read the post you've quoted from! It is crystal clear I was referring to :-

who are responsible for giving you a full and immediate refund

The Guarantee is equally clear. It is the interpretation various Banks choose to put upon it .. that stirs up the mud from the bottom. Your Bank are not responsible for determining if there's been an error .... only the initiator and / or the customer can determine that.

ALIBOBSY

From my own experiences and others I have seen on other forums the direct debit so called guarantee isn't worth the paper its printed on. This is why I check my account daily so any problems can be imediately jumped on.
Good luck
ali x

MarkyMarkD

The FOS discussion on the subject here: http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/ombudsman-news/27/27-directdebit-guarantee.htm is very pertinent.

Particularly relevant is the case where no DD guarantee was applicable, because no DD mandate had been set up.

If a fraudulent or incorrect DD mandate is set up against your account, you are not eligible for the protection of the DD guarantee which is something you become entitled to when you, personally, validly, set up a DD mandate.

But your bank ought to investigate a non-authorised DD mandate in the same way as any other fraud.