Power of Attorney - when can your attorneys make decisions

suffbet3

hi.

I'm 52 currently physically and mentally fine and filling out a Financial LPA. My initial thought was to only allow my attorney (wife) to make financial decisions when I don't have mental capacity I want to retail full control of my financial affairs. However, i'm thinking of scenarios where I still have mental capacity but am unable to physically action my financial decisions so was then leaning towards allowing it to come into play as soon as the LPA is registered.

In that scenario how much proof does my wife need to give to various financial institutions that she is indeed acting in my interest and i've consented - and how is that consent normally given?

Even if I went for the 'don't have mental capacity option' I've seen people also report lots of difficulty getting that signed off so having it kick in straight away may be the best option all round?

I'd be interested generally too to hear peoples experience of both methods on how easy or hard it was to be able to make financial decisions for someone and how easy it was to get proof.

Many thanks.

elsien

I have power-of-attorney for both my brother and my mother to act with their consent while they still have capacity.

I have not used either of them yet and I’m not planning on doing so, because it is not necessary at the moment. In my brother’s case it’s because he was having cancer treatment and didn’t know if he’d be up to sorting things out himself for a short time and my mother’s case it’s because she’s 87 and who knows what will happen when. Presently I have taught her to use online banking which she is happy doing .
Both LPAs are registered with their banks. I was asked if I wanted a bank card or online banking, I said no to the bankcard but yes to the online banking but again have never used it. It’s a fallback just in case things happen very quickly. The other attorney did get a bank card for my brother because he lived closer in case my brother wanted cash but again it’s never been used.

At that point you are not making decisions for people - you are simply acting for them to support in carrying out their wishes.

There is very much an element of trust, because my brother doesn’t use online banking and wouldn’t have a clue if I’d set it up and was stalking him financially online or not. Bottom line is don’t give power-of-attorney to anyone you think might over step the mark. Registering with the banks was really easy but as I’ve not used them yet, I don’t know how many questions they would ask to prove lack of capacity - or even whether they would ask at all. A lot of professionals don’t understand power of attorney and presume that having one means that you can use it regardless, which isn’t the case.

LPA can be revoked to any point while you have capacity if you aren’t happy with how it’s being managed

you also need to think about whether you want a second or reserve of attorney in case your wife is unable to act for any reason if the time comes. You can’t change it to add someone else on at that point - you would have to start again otherwise.

Mands

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6668705/power-of-attorney-when-can-your-attorneys-make-decisions

I have PoA for my mother. It's registered with about 6 organisations (banks, pension providers, DWP). One, of the six, asked why I was using it. "Is she just needing a bit of help now or has she lost capacity?". When I said she no longer had capacity there were no further questions asked.

I don't know if that helps, or hinders, your decision making.

Keep_pedalling

I can’t really see any point in restricting it unless you count trust your wife.

jaybeetoo

How do you define not having mental capacity? My father lost the ability to make financial decisions long before he had a medical diagnosis of dementia by a consultant. Similarly, with my aunt. I was glad I could invoke a PoE for both of them well before the medical profession diagnosed dementia (they seem reluctant to do so). You will find it very hard to get the NHS to put in writing that you don’t have mental capacity meanwhile you are unable to manage your finances. Don’t make life too hard for your Attorneys (I recommend you have more than one).

elsien

In regards to the above post, you don’t need a formal diagnosis, but there does need to be evidence of some sort of cognitive impairment impacting on decision-making, even if nobody is quite sure what that impairment is.
Having dementia does not automatically mean lack of capacity, and someone is presumed to have capacity unless evidenced otherwise.

Capacity is time and decision specific so you may have capacity around day today financial decisions, but not bigger ones such as investments or selling your house.

In order to have capacity you need to be able to understand the relevant information for the particular decision, and retain it for long enough to be able to weigh up with the pros and cons and then to be able to communicate the decision.

The Nhs tend not to get involved around capacity assessments for finances because it’s out of their remit, which is healthcare. And because they are not always great at understanding or following the mental capacity act so tend to ask questions (such as what year it is) which bear no relevance to the decision in hand.

PennysIntoPounds

If you want your attorney/s to be able to help you while you have mental capacity but not physical capacity for a while (eg stay in hospital or infection that drags on) then you need to tick that box on the form. Who you trust to do that and when is entirely up to you!

She/they would need to show the official LPA that is posted back to you after you've signed, paid for, and sent the form. This takes a while! Some institutions are slacker/easier than others, they may just ask if she's the LPA on the phone rather than require proof initially.

Some institutions are dire (looking at you N*twest) and have no idea how to apply LPAs and will insist on you having one to sort out the account of someone who is deceased, despite you patiently explaining that LPAs only apply to living people

So short answer; I would personally recommend being able to get help with finances while you still have capacity but make sure your wife/attorneys know what you've said and where the LPA Office returned document is so they can access it for proof, and if you have time and energy, contact your financial institutions and ask them to log that that person is able to speak on your behalf (whether or not the institution does so effectively is a different matter!)

p00hsticks

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82002384#Comment_82002384

Re your second paragraph - these days it's not always necessary to show (either by post or in person) the oroginal paper version of the LpoA, although some organisations will request it. When The PoA is registered the appointee is now given the ability to set up online acess which allows them to generate a code for any organisation they want to share it with - they tell the organisation the code (either by e-mail or on the phone) and this then allows the organisation to view an electronic version of the LpOA.

suffbet3

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82002024#Comment_82002024

Thank you for taking time out with the detailed reply - that's been really helpful. Hope everything works out ok for your brother ❤️

Mands

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82002848#Comment_82002848

DWP were, by far, the most troublesome organisation I had with regards to the LPA.

The first section I dealt with said they absolutely could not use the electronic system. That there was a DWP-wide ban on accepting anything other than originals/certified copies. There were simply no exceptions to the rule. That they had no plans to ever change.

So I reluctantly, and at significant cost*, arranged to have a certified copy made and couriered to them from overseas.

My next dealings with DWP the member of staff cheerfully said "just give us the electronic authorisation and we'll take it from there. What do you mean we told you we don't do that?!".

• The British High Commission local to me used to provide a certification service. From memory the cost was 65€ per sheet.

badger09

I’ve recently done both my LPAs, husband and son are attorneys & authorised to use immediately with my consent. I haven’t notified any banks, BS or investment platforms as I’m in the process of simplifying my financial affairs after many years of switching and chasing the best rates. They both have the relevant access codes and know where the originals are.
Just need to persuade husband to complete his!