Road markings or signs?

face82

Hello everyone.

I'd like to ask a quick question regarding a PCN I just received:

Details: PCN issued by UKPC. Gallions Reach shopping park, London Borough of Newham.

I was parked in a pick-up point for longer than the allowed 15 minutes, guilty. (I completely missed the sign)

However, painted on the floor in big yellow letters is Taxi/Pick-up. I wasn't picking up but I am a licenced London taxi driver (black cab).

So my question is this: does Taxi/Pick-up mean Taxi or Pick-up? And if it does, what takes precedence, the 15 minutes maximum stay sign or the road markings?

Thank you in advance.
I tried using the search function but couldn't really find what I was looking for. Hope this is allowed.

peteuk

I'm no expert but I would say…

1. Taxi/Pick up implies both are the same - given that a private vehicle shouldn't be using a Taxi lane. So Taxi/Pick up allows both taxi's and other vehicles can use the area.
2. As you weren't picking up, then the I'm a black cab is moot

So therefore I would say 15 minutes is the overarching rule - as a taxi is bookable then the users would advise of the time so the taxi wouldn't need to be there for more than the allotted time. As a black cab you are flagable so if you were picking up (as per taxi or if flagged) you wouldn't be there for more than 15 minutes.

Pay the fine and move on would be my advice.

face82

Thank you for replying and for your advice.

I will pay the fine. Lesson learned. Don't be lazy and be more attentive.

Coupon-mad

"Pay the fine and move on would be my advice."

Nonononononononono! And more NO.

This isn't a fine.

@peteuk - You're new to this board, I see. This isn't a debt, fine or penalty.

It's UKPC. Nobody pays private parking invoices all the time the sector remains unregulated.

Eeek no.

@face82 - DO NOT PAY.

Other regulars on this board will confirm.

Le_Kirk

Agreed , no paying, complain to the shopping park (Plan A in the NEWBIE sticky). If you didn't see the signs about picking up and the limit, they clearly were not clear, prominent and legible.

face82

Here's what I have done so far:

I appealed right away, literally 5 minutes after the notice was served. It's a lease vehicle that I admitted I was driving in my rushed, emotional appeal.

They upheld their charge and told me to appeal to POPLA.

Then I appealed to Matalan and Next (where I was shopping and have receipts), and the landowners. Next and Matalan said there was nothing they could do. The landowner hasn't replied yet (it's only been 2 days).

I haven't appealed to POPLA yet, I have until 09/06/26.

My gripes:

The PCN was issued at 12:24, the time first seen was 12:09. That's still within the 15 minutes, surely? Although the evidence they provided through the website shows the photos being taken 16 minutes apart.

The markings on the floor say Taxi/pick-up. That slash surely means or. I'm a taxi driver, and I wasn't picking up. The sign makes no mention whatsoever about Taxis, just dropping off.

There are 2 signs when entering the park that say 4 hours free customer parking, with no mention at all of possible fines.

There's a drop-off area outside Matalan that says Taxi/pick-up on the floor in big yellow letters (I'm a taxi driver, in a taxi). There is a sign high up on a lamp post that's impossible to read from the junction while driving to the pick-up area. The sign states 15 minutes maximum stay, it also mentions a £100 fine in pretty small letters.

What shall I do next, considering it's a lease, and I've already admitted to being the driver?

Shall I appeal to POPLA, and if I fail, start ignoring everything?

Coupon-mad

It's a lease vehicle that I admitted I was driving in my rushed, emotional appeal.

Well that was your 100% guaranteed win at POPLA in the bin, sadly. Remember this next time. NEVER appeal as driver.

You can try POPLA on the basis that:

• you are a taxi driver and were in a 15 minute taxi bay that had no full t&cs sign in it, and
• secondly, that the PCN was issued at 12:24, the time first seen was 12:09. That's still within the 15 minutes allowed.

face82

I'll try POPLA and see how it goes.

Thanks for your help, everyone.

face82

*UPDATE*

POPLA cancelled my parking charge! It was probably due to it being issued within the 15 minutes allotted time. (I got lucky here as I was parked there for 25 minutes)

Many thanks to this website and everyone's hard work.

Here's what I sent for anyone interested. I didn't use a template.

The photo shows the fine being issued within 15 minutes after being first spotted.

I believe this is still within the allotted free 15 minutes.

I believe there are conflicting signs and road markings that aim to confuse drivers.

1. Upon entering the park, you're faced with multiple signs that say "4 hours free parking," with no mention of possible fines or other areas with different allowances. (photos a & b)
2. In the area where I was parked, there is a sign posted high on a lamppost, which is impossible to see from the junction while safely driving. (photo c)

Once up close and craning my neck to read the aforementioned sign fixed high up on the lamppost, it uses a tiny font, in comparison to the rest of the sign, to warn drivers of a potential fine. This feels deliberately misleading to fleece unsuspecting patrons of the park. (photo d)

1. Painted on the floor in big yellow letters are the words Taxi/Pick-up. (photo e)

The slash should indicate "or". Taxi or Pick-up. I am a taxi driver in a licenced London black taxi. I wasn't picking up.

If it doesn't mean "or" like it does everywhere else, then it really should be explained somewhere, anywhere. Even the sign with the tiny font doesn't mention taxis at all.

This seems deliberately ambiguous to confuse and fleece unsuspecting patrons of the shopping park.

I frequent that particular shopping park at least 3 times a week and have done so for at least 20 years.

I have never received a ticket before.

I believe the parking operator issued my fine within the allotted free period. Hopefully, it was a genuine mistake on their behalf.

I also believe the signs and road markings are ambiguous and conflicting at best and deliberately misleading at worst.

I implore you to overturn the decision based on these reasons.

Jame4ters

Do you have a copy of the response from POPLA?

face82

Dear,

The operator has contacted us and told us that they have withdrawn your appeal.

If you have already paid your parking charge, this is the reason your appeal will have been withdrawn. Unfortunately, you cannot pay your
parking charge and appeal, which means that POPLA’s involvement in your appeal has ended. You will not be able to request a refund of the amount paid in order to resubmit your appeal to us.

If you have not paid your parking charge, the operator has reviewed your appeal and chosen to cancel the parking charge. As the operator has withdrawn your appeal, POPLA’s involvement has now ended and you do not need to take any further action.

Kind regards

POPLA Team