Probate / Will Query

poppystar

While as executors you would not normally speak to beneficiaries at this stage under these circumstances talking to the widow would seem appropriate. Could it be that she has her own finances that will allow her to manage financially? Might the arrangement have been made mutually between her and her husband, where her half would have gone to one of her friends should she have died first. I’m not sure the arrangement is as unusual as it might sound to people with children. Where there are no children. and especially in cases where marriage has happened later in life, this is a common way of ensuring that life long friends of each partner are left some of their assets.

poseidon1

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82000356#Comment_82000356

My difficulty in responding here, is not knowing whether the widow is independently wealthy, was fully cognizant she was to be disinherited and therefore fully on-board with this decidedly odd testamentary arrangement.

If you as executors have no idea of the widow's financial means, I fail to understand why you both did not make it your business to first ascertain her situation, rather than blindly follow what appears on the surface to be an unnecessarily callous will.

If I were independently advising the widow, and it transpires she is of modest means I would certainly reccomend she make a claim for adequate financial provision from the estate, under the terms of the Inheritance (Provision for Family and Dependants) Act that I mentioned previously, especially since there is a 6 month time limit from date probate obtained for her to commence proceedings - the following article may make helpful reading in this regard -

https://www.brownejacobson.com/insights/inheritance-act-1975-common-questions

In the meantime, perhaps to get a sense of the burden and potential litigation you may be taking on, a candid discussion with the widow appears overdue. As the above article indicates, mediation rather than litigation should be the objective here, for all concerned.

Patfig

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82000798#Comment_82000798

Thanks Poseidon, We were named executors on this will back in 2012 I think it was and the share of the house was left to the spouse in it's entirety. He re wrote his will in 2016 and we werent given a copy.

We are also executors on her will that I think was also re written in 2016 and we don't have a copy.

She is as far as I am aware of modest means with a state pension and mod pension.

We have been very good friends for a lot of years.

poseidon1

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82000824#Comment_82000824

A previous will that left the widow the deceased share of the house, and then 4 years later changed this to a trust for Mr X, is on the face things perverse.

The fact that the widow is of modest means and will now be at a considerable financial disadvantage under the terms of the 2016 Will suggest she should not passively accept this perverse change in her inheritance expectations.

Since you say you do not know Mr X , it would make a great deal of sense to try and ascertain what relationship he had to the deceased to justify this generous bequest at the widow's expense.

Frankly unless it transpires Mr X was the deceased's unacknowledged secret love child from a previous relationship, the widow should seek to overturn the trust to restore full and unemcumbered ownership of the house to herself.

Returning to the 2012 Will, did it also purport to gift the deceased's residue of cash and investments to your spouse, or was that also an inexplicable change in 2016? If your wife was not a beneficiary to that extent, the 2016 Will increasingly looks like an aberration that should be challenged in its entirety.

If the retired solicitor that drafted the 2nd will is available, perhaps he might have some insight into what motivated the deceased to disinherit the widow to this extreme extent, although I would question his professional judgement in not pointing out to the deceased that the new will would be an obvious target for challenge.

Given the issues with the husband's 2016 Will, suggest you get hold of a copy of the widow's Will prepared at the same time, to ensure you have not been burdened as executors with similar incomprehensible testamentary instructions and specifically if Mr X also appears has a beneficiary of her Will.

I afraid unless this matter is resolved amicably ( especially with Mr X), this bears all the hallmarks for potentially fractious litigation.

Patfig

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82000875#Comment_82000875

Thanks, I think we are going to decline to act based on the possible fallout that may occur. I think the surviving spouse is happy that this was her husbands wishes and that they both saw the house as being a separate 50/50 ownership but of course people can change their minds.

Thanks ever so much for your input.

PF

poseidon1

Probably wise, in which case executor renunciation form below -

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6731eb962cccb48648badaee/PA15_1124.pdf

Ideally Widow and Mr X should step forward to fill the void, but not your concern.

As for your spouse' s postion as residuary legatee she may wish to step away from this also, either by a deed of disclaimer or deed of variation. See article below re disclaimers -

https://www.taxinsider.co.uk/how-to-make-a-disclaimer-and-its-inheritance-tax-effect-ta

However , since the will seems poorly drafted with regard to contingent or replacement beneficiaries and therefore silent on who takes your spouse position as residuary beneficiary, a proactive deed of variation in favour of the widow maybe the more appropriate approach.

Since you are stepping away from the husband's estate ( for good reason), worth checking if you still feel comfortable being executors for the widow.

gplion55

If you are an executor you can ask for a copy of the will of the deceased.

You can ask the solicitor concerned, or if probate has already started it can be ordered online.

Patfig

It transpires that the widow thinks she can sell the house and downsize if she wants and Mr X will own half of the new house.

The tenants in common issue was to try and reduce the impact of any need for selling up to pay for care home fees if that scenario arose.

poseidon1

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82002427#Comment_82002427

The Will would need to provide express provision for that possibility.

However to be clear, as matters stand and as pointed out by @Keep_pedalling , Mr X owns nothing whilst the widow is alive he has a mere contingent interest in the deceased's half share. If the Will provides for downsizing, does it also specifically stipulate what should happen to any surplus not reinvested in a replacement property?

A word of caution, given that you and your wife are thinking of renouncing your executorship, is it wise to be drawn into these questions and find yourselves inadvertently intermeddling in the affairs of the estate?

I get you are long standing friends and might wish to assist/advise her in that capacity, but you can see how that can be misinterpreted whilst you are still executors on record.

Keep_pedalling

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82002427#Comment_82002427

With no direct descendants to leave their estate to why would you ever worry about the house going on care costs? If the house is of relatively low value this is detrimental to the widow’s ability to fund quality residential care if she ever needs it.

Her husband was frankly exceedingly foolish in making this will.