Challenge of legitimate interest

notanyonesrealname

Hi all. Thankyou in advance for the quality advice I assume I’m going to receive based on the threads I’ve read here. Apologies if I’ve missed anything that is well covered, I have read around but with 3000+ pages of posts obviously only scratched the surface!

Short version first - there are two specific questions I’d like to ask, please:

1. My understanding is that, provided I pay any fine issued by the actual court promptly, the absolute maximum amount payable for contesting a parking charge is circa £200. Is that correct?
2. Assuming that every single term of a non-fee earning car park were complied with (and can be evidenced), aside from the registration of the car on the keypad provided for the purpose, has the magnitude/existence of the charge the parking company are seeking to make been challenged in court on the basis of no legitimate interest, and if so has that been successful in the past?

The factual context is that I parked in a community car park to attend an event at that space. Said car park has always had a ‘car park is only for space users’ rule, which has evidently been largely ignored, so has stepped up with game with ANPR. Despite noticing some evidence of changes to the setup the hamster in the wheel in my head was not lively enough and I didn’t type my registration in, for some reason. Said event was for a virtuous purpose with a well regarded organisation who have provided me with a letter confirming my attendance. The parking company have specifically cited the lack of registration as the basis for the charge rather than any other infraction (over staying, outside a marked bay, etc).

The personal context is that I provided I’m correct about my maximum exposure I would rather argue the principle and risk having to pay than try and trip them up over procedural/paperwork issues - there’s plenty of people fighting that fight already - unless this is a long settled matter and I am just going to embarrass myself.

Frankly I am also content to lose provided I can cost them considerably more than they gain from chasing me. Yes, I am childish, sorry! But more seriously I’m pretty confident in my moral high ground and I think it’s an argument that should be had. 

Thanks again

Gr1pr

1. Its not a fine, its a judgment, issued by a judge, and is around £212 for a single pcn invoice claim for a private parking court case ( its not a maximum, its an average. )
2. There are various court cases that matter, with varying degrees of precedents, but the Barry Beavis case 11 years ago, with an £85 pcn invoice at stake is the defining case

No private parking company pcn invoice has been over £100 in the last 15 years, the trade bodies have had that figure in every Code of Practice

The hidden keypad argument is well known and we have seen dozens of cases on here where pub goers, restaurant goers and especially gym users have fallen foul of that aspect

I think that one common failing in general is that the newbies and uninitiated assume that a Money Claim N1SDT pack made against them will end up in a court hearing before a judge, yet many claims are discontinued beforehand, meaning that no judgment is issued

A claim tends to "go to court", in that the court receives the case file, but "going to court " is not the same thing as going to a hearing, hearings have to be paid for, and often aren't paid so are vacated, or discontinued

I dont know who your parking company is, but would expect any Money Claim to be discontinued just before the hearing fee needs paying

Car1980

If you let us know the parking company we can let you know what their likely behaviour will be,

It's only a speculative invoice at the end of the day.

Legitimate interest is quite niche and there will be plenty of other hurdles for them before getting in that.

MyRealNameToo

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6665242/challenge-of-legitimate-interest

Judges are given fairly significant discretion under the Civil Procedural Rules, so whilst the answer to 1 may be an average rather than maximum there are a range of breaches of the CPR that you could do that pisses the judge off and makes him minded to exercise their discretion.

Never dealt with parking tickets in court but have had small track cases where the counter party were a pain, didnt follow the CPR and it was a totally vexatious case. Technically they won but the judge awarded us costs as it should never have gone to court in the first place and those dwarfed their award.

As such there is no legal maximum a judge can award

notanyonesrealname

Ok, good to know. I wouldn’t intend to be obstructive to the process and certainly not rude to the court, more talking about applying liberal amounts of sarcasm and making it clear that I consider the parking operation and their lackeys contemptible in my interactions with them. I also don’t think this would be vexatious in the sense that I genuinely believe they have no legal basis for their actions and I don’t see why I shouldn’t use the legal system to challenge that.

As I understand it the legitimate interest of this parking enforcement would be ensuring that the car park is available for users of the community space. The parking is never paid at any time, so there’s no financial loss to anyone. I understand that even in free car parks enforcement can be legitimate if it encourages more people to follow the rules - but in this case I was already fully in compliance with the rules. Literally my only ‘transgression’ is the failure to use the keypad and on that basis they want to charge £100.

I can’t see that this would go to court, even if the profit margins on their business model supported fighting in court, which it can’t, I don’t think they’d want this can of worms opened as I expect they make a reasonable amount of money from this situation.

To be clear, the keypad wasn’t hidden, I just had a brain fart, looked at it and walked straight past. I’ve been visiting this location for years and didn’t connect the dots that the process change would apply to me. I am (just to be clear on my stance) absolutely 100% guilty of the rule breaking they are alleging, I just don’t think the law allows them to charge what they are attempting to charge.

The letter I received is under the name Countrywide Parking Mangement, not sure if they have other trading names or are part of a bigger group.

Thanks

Coupon-mad

We rarely hear about Countrywide Parking Management. I can recall one thread that I think had a claim form but you'd have to search the forum to find it.

To be clear, £212 isn't an average.

£212 is the exact, easily calculable sum that a D (who has not behaved unreasonably) could be ordered to pay if they lost a case at a hearing but the judge refused interest and the double recovery fake fee. Almost no judge allows interest or the double recovery fakery in cases where the D knows what to say.

Jame4ters

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81973077#Comment_81973077

You’ve already highlighted 2 potential points.

A change in the T&Cs of the car park. When did they change and how clearly were signposted.

Was the keypad there or was there a very clear, easy to see and read sign stating you must input your VRM etc