Noisy Neighbours

Karinet

Yes. They have.

They've also tiled both floors in the kitchen and bathroom. There was lino in there previously.

Karinet

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81970043#Comment_81970043

I've been trying to find this out but, according to the lincensing team at the council, there is a pending application for a landlord license so it's safe to assume that the propety is rented.

Karinet

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81971780#Comment_81971780

Hello,

I have answered most of these.

This is a mother and two teenage daughters whom I believe are renting. I know who owns the property but I have no contact details for them. It seems you're suggesting that I'm making things up and that my comments should be taken at face value but why would I make a false statement if I'm facing a real problem ? Going back to these people, I'm not sure if any of them are working because it seems they have time to stay up all night and make noise.

Karinet

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81971366#Comment_81971366

Self-managed means that the place is basically run by the leaseholders and there's no external agent.

I've checked my lease and, apart from the covenant about not doing things to stop another leaseholder from enjoying their home, I couldn't see anything relating to floor coverings.

WIAWSNB

Re your second post above, you have misunderstood what I said. I accept what you say about the noise, which is why I've tried to be helpful.

It sounds as tho' the property is managed by a 'company' which has leaseholders as the directors. That's usually a good thing, but it relies on these directors being impartial and responsive.

They are the folk to complain to, and it would really help if the other affected neighbours did so at the same time. Perhaps a good starting point would be to ask one of them round for a cuppa when the noise is likely to occur.

The ManCo should be able to enforce the terms of the deeds, and oblige occupant's to treat others with thoughtfulness. It's a shame that there isn't a reference to carpeted floors.

It's reasonable for kitchens and bathrooms to be tiled/laminated as they need to be waterproof. But the rest, no.

It's a toughie, and really needs a good ManCo. Without that, you'll struggle, I fear.

You could always put your name forward at election time...

Priority, I think, is to get as many other folk to agree that the noise level is unacceptable. And tackle the owner, too, once you get their contact details (the ManCo should have this.) AST contracts will almost certainly have expectations of behaviour towards others.

Karinet

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81971986#Comment_81971986

Thanks for your input. Unfortunately, nobody cares. If I tell the directors, and there are only two who llive on the premises, it will fall i death ears and nobody willl enforce anything. I have already done my bit with these noisy people. I have already told them to be mindful with their noise, both verbally and in writing but they've decide to ignore my request. I now know what sort of people they are. I'm not going to waste more time with them and this is what I've done so far. I have compiled a noise diary which I update when I hear too much noise. I have written to the owner's conveyancing solicitors, asking them politely if they would forward my letter to the property's owner but, of course, there's no guarantee that they will do this and, even if the owner gets it he may not respond. I had to do it like this because the Land Registry have not updated their records and I don't have a contact address for the property owner. They've told me they're planning to update their records in June at the earliest but I can't wait that long and I prefer not to use the property address because I fear my letter won't be passed on. I will give the owner 10 days to respond. If they don't respond in that time frame for whichever reason, I will go back to the ward councillor to file open a case for noise nuisance.

Going back to the tiled floor, tiles are not necessary, as lino can be used instead. Again, these properties initially had carpet in the bathroom and lino in the kitchen. If tiles must be laid then proper acoustic material should be used as an underlay to reduce noise transmission.

There's no excuse for not having adequate flooring if the property is not on the ground floor. There is a reason why these flats were originally carpeted and had lino in the kitchen.

WIAWSNB

Karinet, please try and remove the emotive element from the situation. Consider it purely a practical issue to try and sort in a practical manner.

You don't know what these folk are like. You have an opinion of them, based on their seeming lack of consideration, but you don't know them any more than they know you. Do not assume they are being noisy for any particular reason, because you just don't know if there even is a 'reason', or just normal for them.

The previous folk were quiet. That suggests to me that they could have been particularly careful, knowing the floor was unsuitable. Or perhaps they were elderly and walked unusually gently and slowly. In other words, the previous folk may have been the ones that weren't moving 'normally'!

You initially described them as 'three adults', which I assumed meant non-familial, so it struck me as unusual that three individual adults sharing a flat would be so inconsiderate. But now we know that two are teenage daughters...

They may have moved from a house. There is seemingly no dad, so presumably a 'broken' home. You have no idea what their situation is, how complex, how difficult, how anything. So please don't judge them on anything other than their noisy feet.

I will tell you that if you describe the situation in emotive or judgemental terms, it will damage your case, as well as being unfair.

As for the kitchen and bathroom floor coverings, I doubt it matters if it's tile or lino or laminate - all are hard, and all transfer noise more than carpet.

All that matters is that you can evidence that the noise is excessive and unreasonable, and you then have potential paths open to you. That is via your LA, and via the ManCo.

It's disappointing that there are only two resident directors on the ManCo board. I personally think that should be outlawed. But, you still have some pressure to bring to them, citing the 'nuisance' factor, but again only if you can 'prove' this nuisance.

So, log book, recordings, and witnesses.

Are you on the ground floor? The ideal scenario is that you were not, and a director lived below you. If all other avenues were exhausted, you could lift a section of carpet, and lay a tapdancing floor - you stomp on yours, every time the above flat did so...

poppellerant

Sorry if I'm covering what's already been discussed, but this is my fresh view on it.

Firstly, my sympathies. I know from first-hand experience that there's nothing worse than a conflict with your neighbours, especially noise - every sound will sound targetted at you, when realistically they're probably behaving normally. I'm not saying that some of their actions aren't deliberate, as I'm sure some might be, but I'm just saying not all actions will be.

Get in contact with the environmental health team at your council and keep them updated, by means of uploading your diary regularly. Get your local councillor onboard and maybe even invite them round for a cup of tea, so they get an idea of the noise for themselves.

Eventually you will be given a noise monitoring machine, which sits in the background constantly recording noise levels (not the actual sound itself). The equipment I had for barking dogs had a remote control and you pressed a button to stop and start the recordings. Bear in mind, some of these machines will record 30 seconds either side of you pressing the button, so be mindful of this as you hit the button.

Land registries can take a year to update, so be prepared to wait. If you know the previous owner well enough, they might tell you who they've sold the property to.

Bigphil1474

Just to add to the above, you are unlikely to get much joy from a statutory noise nuisance investigation by Environmental Health . They normally work under the Environmental Protection Act 1990 which talks about reasonable*. See if your council has an anti social behaviour team, but your best bet is their landlord. They are more likely to do something if they keep getting grief all the time. From a personal perspective, our daughter used to sound like a herd of elephants when she walked up and down the carpeted stairs pretty much as soon as she became a teenager, and I used to shout at her almost every time to walk quieter. She never did, but she did move out at 18.

*Day to day living noises aren't usually classed as a stat nuisance. This is from a random council website-

We can take action for certain noises, such as:

• amplified music or noise from radio, television or stereo 
• noise from DIY activities at unreasonable times 
• intruder alarms 
• persistent dog barking

Please remember we are an enforcement agency and you have to live near to the person you are complaining about. If we take enforcement action, you will be required to give a witness statement and you could be asked to attend court to give evidence against the person you are complaining about. This is not meant to scare or deter you but we do need to make you aware of this from the beginning.

We are normally unable to take action in relation to general living noise such as:

• footsteps 
• flushing the toilet 
• household appliances such as washing machines and vacuum cleaners
• moving furniture 
• general talking 
• children playing or crying 
• slamming doors 
• shouting

Karinet

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81972786#Comment_81972786

What the hell ? I think I'm going to have to delete my post because It's not getting me anywhere. If someone is making a lot of noise and it's disturbing you, surely, you have rights, haven't you ? You shouldn't judge someone you don't know but you can still judge someone based on their behaviour. I have been very fair with them and aaked them to reduce their noise. I have also made suggestions to them but nothing was taken on board. Why would I complain if the noise level was right ? According to you I have to find out why they are making noise because I don't know them and they don't know me ? That's nonesense. The previous owner was not elderly and he certainly didn't crash & bang on a regular basis, especially in the evening or at night when everyone tries to get some sleep. All I want now is the owner to do something about his floor. Surely, this can't be an unreasonable request can it ? As I said, there is no real management so I can't complain to anyone. I'm just hoping that the property owner will do something about it. If not then, I will need to get the council involved because the whole situation is getting me down and I hate my home right now. Or should I do nothing about it and just sit there and let this destroy my mental healf ? Of course, if the council gets involved I will only concentrate on the noise these people are creating. Trying to find out why they are doing this is neither here not there. As for witnesses, two neighbours have heard the noise as well. Legal action is not an option for me. One thing for sure, I will never buy a flat again. I now feel I've made a big mistale buying a flat, especially when it's below another property. Plus I'm getting older so I don't need all this hassle.