Should estate agent have done checks?

eddddy

user1977 said

When have you ever heard of a council “stopping the process”? Why would they even want to?

I think that the OP has explained badly and/or slightly misunderstood.

I guess the OP means that….

• If the the tenant goes to the council and says "I've been served a section 21 notice, so I'm going homeless, so I need to the council to rehouse me"…

• Councils almost always reply "Don't leave the property until the landlord has obtained a court order, and bailiffs arrive to evict you"

• Often councils will give tenants advice on whether a section 21 notice is valid, and how to challenge it in court, to avoid eviction

• The reason being that the council don't want the hassle of rehousing the tenant - so they want to help the tenant delay / scupper the eviction process in any way possible.

So taking a step back, I think the OP's complaint might be…

• The OP suspects that the landlord (seller) didn't provide the tenant with a gas safety certificate when the tenancy started

• Failing to provide a gas safety certificate at the outset means that a section 21 cannot be validly served - which makes it much more difficult for the landlord (seller) to evict the tenant

• The tenant might know this anyway - or if the tenant approaches the council to be rehoused, the council might tell the tenant

• If the landlord is unable to evict the tenant (in a reasonable time), the sale/purchase will fall through

• So the alleged lack of a gas safety certificate gives this sale/purchase an unusually high risk of falling through

• The OP feels that this unusually high risk is material information - so the estate agent should have told the buyer about it at the outset

However, the estate agent says the tenant has agreed to move out anyway - so all the above could be irrelevant.

And it seems like the OP only has a suspicion that no Gas Safety certificate was provided. The OP appears to have no proof of this.

TroubledTarts

Whilst it may seem within the interest of all parties that the estate agent did check that the existing LandLord (LL) has all his boxes ticked should a section 21 be required that is not what they have been told by the LL. The LL has told the estate agent (EA) that the tenant has agreed to leave so the EA will have no interest in that process just what is required for sale.

I wouldn't even look at purchasing a property with atenant current living there.

mills112

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81967679#Comment_81967679

yeah, being a landlord, i am well aware that a tenant may not leave at the end of the contract or at the end of S21 notice and it can take a very long time to evict them, and virtually impossible if you haven't got all the necessary papers served etc.

i would normally steer clear of properties where the tenants are still living there as the risk is too high, but in my FIL case, there is very little that he can afford and he needs a ground floor flat that allow pets so we got a bit carried away and went for it anyway, taking the risks. however, i didn't know at the time that the owner doesn't seem to have any regard to the laws on renting. whether he is oblivious of everything or whether he is stupid and don't think he is going to be caught. it makes the situation more risky now but we have spent a lot of money already on this.

mills112

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81967710#Comment_81967710

look at my earlier post where google explains how the council involvement can stop a property being sold or slow it down.

mills112

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81967782#Comment_81967782

this is not true. the seller completed the TA6 form to state he didn't know when the boiler was installed (which is a lie) and so he has not paperwork for the boiler. the surveyor ascertained that the boiler was installed in 2021 as apparently the engineer did register the boiler work back in 2021 however the owner was there when the survey was done and he told the surveyor the boiler has not been serviced and there is no paperwork for it.

so it is not an assumption he hasn't got the gas safety certificate, he has admitted to his solicitor and mine that he doesn't have it, nor the ECIR report. he said however, he will get the boiler serviced soon.

not only has he not served the gas safety certificate when the tenant took residence, he still hasn't got one!

it doesn't have to be the council that the tenant has to approach, all he has to do is google what to do when my landlord serve me section 21 or the section 21 form will advise who to seek advice. the internet is full of info to tell him the landlord is stuffed and he can stay and with so many law breaches (which I am really astonished about), it is not going to be easy to evict him on section 8 even if he stops paying the rent.

i just hope he isn't a savvy renter and someone that will take advantage of a bad situation, as this has now turned out to be a much riskier purchase than we had anticipated.

GDB2222

My son's partner bought a tenanted flat. Much to my surprise, the tenant moved out at the end of the tenancy, and contracts were exchanged. It all went smoothly.

I mentioned that to the agent, and she said that in practice there are hardly ever problems.

eddddy

@mills112 - can you clarify what your question is?

Are you asking whether the estate agent selling the property should have checked the validity of the section 21 notice before marketing the property?

If so, what outcome are you looking for? Do you think the estate agent should pay your FIL compensation for failing to check the validity of a section 21 notice?

Or something else?

mills112

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81968080#Comment_81968080

yes, this is why so many are sold with the tenants still living there. the likelihood of a tenant not moving out when the property has been sold is small but if it happens it can cause the sale to fall through.

my FIL is selling his house and if there is severe delays, he may lose his buyers.

mills112

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81968089#Comment_81968089

i don't think there is any come back to the estate agent as i am aware that they are not obligated to check the gas safety certificates or the ECIR report exist and that there won't be issues that the tenants are going to be moving out at the end of the contract. that is the risk to the buyers.

my question is whether this should be made mandatory to catch bad landlords who break the laws or to stop the estate agents selling a property that is obviously not yet in a situation that could be seen to be saleable. A change in practice behaviour as it means buyers won't be put in a situation of high risks without realising it.

Section62

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81968043#Comment_81968043

The Google 'AI Overview' you posted is just a wordsoup of different things it has patched together in an attempt to answer whatever you asked it.

Ultimately, what can slow down or stop a sale of a property is having a tenant who doesn't want to move. And yes, a council may encourage/assist a tenant to avoid leaving a property against their will.

But much of Google's AI is effectively arguing the opposite. The points it makes could be used to highlight how a council might be able to encourage a "dodgy landlord" to sell a property to someone who will be a better landlord, or (likely by preference) to an owner/occupier.

It suggests how a council could cause problems, but user1977's point is have you heard of an actual case where a council was involved in “stopping the process” of a sale (where the tenant had left or was leaving by choice), and why would a council do that if it meant a "dodgy landlord" continued to own a property?

Realistically a council is not going to stop a sale if there is no tenant to worry about.