My address can't have a smart meter - how to access off peak deals

Reed_Richards

@Heedtheadvice, I don't doubt for a minute that you can get comms hubs that communicate over 4G and can take an external aerial. But are they available in the north, the region covered by Arqiva where the norm is LRR? Try another net search and find me proof that they are.

With regard to TV signal, I assert that lack of a TV signal (from a main mast, not a relay station) bodes ill for LRR reception. But I'm sure there will be counterexamples.

My second name is Thomas, by the way.

WiserMiser

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81968195#Comment_81968195

Can't agree that LRR and DTTV use vastly different frequencies. LRR uses 412-414 MHz for the uplink and 422-424 MHz for the downlink. DTTV uses 470 MHz to 694 MHz.

They're all in the UHF band, and even the highest TV frequency is less than double that of LRR.

However, the TV Test could be misleading if the user is served only by a nearby relay transmitter that doesn't have an LRR transmitter.

Heedtheadvice

OK vastly was overstepping the mark! Some TV signals are not close enough to use as a comparison of signal quality.

As evidence Reed, I am in the North where Arqiva cover the LRR comms but I have been installed a cellular hub fitted by the contractor Calisen for UW as recently as January.

Do you want me to post a photo or will you take it at face value?

Scot_39

Getting back to OP's first question

I suppose ultimately if OP cannot get a smart meter for now - the only options are the old style register based tariffs - most likely either an E7 off peak / peak - or are there any left - non smart / not half hourly but register based EV tariffs (and ones that dont actually really need an EV - if OP doesn't currently have one)

As a stop gap if that will be better than single rate on non smart.

Reed_Richards

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81968675#Comment_81968675

@Heedtheadvice, please post a photo showing where you attach the external aerial.

Qyburn

When we were having problems the meter fitter was convinced it wasn't going to work on LRR. He actually had a cellular comms hub unpacked and ready to install, complete with external aerial. This was before 4G were officially offered in the North so I assume it was a 2/3G CH as used down S. It never got fitted as a replacement LRR CH worked right away.

Reed_Richards

That's very interesting, @Qyburn . When I was having problems with my comms hub, the installer tried two 4G comms hubs that had just become available to him last September. Neither of them worked. This did not surprise me as mobile reception is very poor inside my house. But he didn't suggest, or AFAIK have, an external aerial to use in conjunction with these. I suspect that an external aerial positioned in the loft above the meter cupboard (I live in a bungalow) would have worked. The research I had done prior to the installer visit suggested an external aerial would not be an available option. If that's wrong, it might help me if my problem recurs and might work for the OP. I wish there were someone here with a 4G comms hub with an external aerial in the Arqiva area who could post to verify that it is an available option.

QrizB

It's worth noting here that not all cellular comms hubs have connections for external aerials. Possibly Qyburn's installer had access to models that did, while Reed_Richards's installer didn't?

(Another unfortunate consequence of the laissez-faire "free market" approach to the UK's smart meter rollout.)

Reed_Richards

Yes, exactly @QrizB . That's why i want to know if the "standard" 4G offering in the Arqiva area has a connection for an external aerial or not. Or is there no 4G "standard" and what you get depends on the electricity supplier?

Ildhund

@Reed_Richards asks:

i want to know if the "standard" 4G offering in the Arqiva area has a connection for an external aerial or not. Or is there no 4G "standard" and what you get depends on the electricity supplier?

FWIW, my own understanding is that:

• DCC has contracted with Vodafone (alone) to provide 4G service;
• The comms hub required is the Toshiba SKU2 or SKU3 (cellular and mesh) with the appropriate SIM installed. The earlier offerings had a network-agnostic SIM. Why the change from 2/3G for some RTS-refugees (a stop-gap implemented to avoid problems when RTS was eventually switched off while waiting for the 4G hubs to become available) involved a change of hub rather than just a new SIM isn't obvious. There must be other hardware differences.
• The Toshiba SKU2 has one and and the SKU3 two connectors for external aerials, one for HAN (to cope with thick Scottish walls) and the other for WAN (where neither LRR nor the cellular network just doesn't reach).
• Finding information about this at the DCC site is frustrating, to say the least.

It's quite possible that this isn't right, so looking for someone who has a working 4G hub installed this year in the Northern CSP region is probably a wise move

There are at least two scenarios needing attention: the long-term replacement of all 2/3G hubs ahead of the switch-off in ~2033, and ones like yours where your meter is still struggling to communicate. I would have hoped that the second would take priority. There is clearly a move afoot to shuffle the wholesale hub exchange exercise (in DCC-speak, TCSO) over to DNOs, which would seem to be much more efficient arrangement than adding yet another burden to suppliers' task list. This might mean that suppliers hang back meanwhile and customers like you have to suffer meanwhile. We'll see.