Mandatory Reconsideration

i_like_cats

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81958736#Comment_81958736

Thanks everyone for all your responses!

Regarding overwhelming psychological difficulty in travelling somewhere, I understand the bar is very high, and the fact that I can walk fine may stop me getting points here. Although it's absolutely the truth that my binge eating kicks in when I go into a noisy environment, whether that's a nearby market town or the big town centre. I get on the sugar rollercoaster to numb myself, and then am not really in control of it. (It's not so much 'I have a coffee and cake when I go into town', more 'And then I'm wolfing 250g of fudge, followed by 3 ice-creams', etc. This connects to binge-spending and not really being able to budget as I have this imperative to 'fix' my mood/feelings immediately regardless of cost / whether it's on a card. (I used to go to eating disorder recovery groups though haven't since before Covid.) These binges do NOT happen on the rare occasions I've gone to those places with my parent or parents, so perhaps it could in fact be argued I need someone with me to avoid OPD.

Regarding transport, along with my personal difficulties, it's not safe to ride a bike around here due to narrow roads, aggressive drivers, and no cycle paths. That's irrelevant for the purposes of a PIP claim, I know. Based on the past couple of years I ride a bike maybe 5-6 times a year, short journeys in summer to the train station or supermarket.

As I said I have zero hearing in one ear, and have high frequency hearing loss in the other (which affects speech, but not traffic). I wear a CROS-AID device which acts as a microphone on the deaf ear, sending sound over to the hearing ear. That's generally useful but doesn't solve the issue I have around sound localisation. I don't experience sounds in space in anything but a very broad way. My judgement of sound / distance / location is absent or askew. I can't rely on hearing to know where vehicles are around me, or if there is an emergency vehicle coming from behind.

I know that people who are totally deaf can still be issued driving licenses, but for me my hearing loss compounds with my anxiety and tendency to space out / withdraw from my surroundings into my head. So just can't imagine it being possible. I actually had 40 lessons in the mid-1990s but was never considered ready for the test, then 50 in 2024-5 before failing heavily, & can't imagine taking it again.

I think it will be useful to make clearer how my issues are not new ones, & also the extent & seriousness of the therapies and treatments which I had before, in years gone by, which did help to some degree. But I am poor at monitoring my own declining state or taking actions to turn the battleship round.

I know lots of people these days are 'dissociated' if that means that what's happening on their devices is more real than what's going on around them, and they are not really able to participate in the flesh-and-blood possibilities of life around them (or they're depressed because they feel that life offers few possibilities, so they've sort of involuntarily given up and retreated to the virtual). Also as a previous poster stated, lots of people are terrible with money and spend money they haven't got, even if they are able to function normally to a high level in many other ways. But I think my issues are more serious / long running than that.

My ability to interact with others & to manage my conditon/s may be stronger points for me to argue as both are really limited. I understand it's not the job of the PIP adjudicators to look for reasons to give it to you, but from the outside it just seems obvious I have a very limited life and there has to be something up! But obvious it comes down to whether it fits their categories and can be expressed in terms that are meaningful to them.

Incidentally there's a history of dementia/Alzheimers on one side of my family and I do suspect, darkly, that my tendency towards rumination and fixating on ancient or future regrets, to the exclusion of the day in front of me, may be an early indicator of that predisposition lurking in me, too. Anyway, it's clear I need to articulate the anxiety side better.

I just heard I have a face-to-face work capability assessment coming up, too, for UC, so that will be another thing I should really prepare for, as obviously I shouldn't hope to be understood on the terms I want to be if I've not made the case.

peteuk

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81958802#Comment_81958802

As far as PIP is concerned you do not have OPD, OPD is not about travelling it’s about leaving the house. You binge eat because of the noise when out, but you can leave the house. Because you’ve had no binge eating treatment since 2019, it will go against you.

You need to read and fully understand each activity and it’s discriptors before you challenge your outcome.

teaselMay

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81959057#Comment_81959057

What's OPD in this context please?

peteuk

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81959088#Comment_81959088

overwhelming psychological distress is noted in two discriptors for the activity of planning a journey.

Descriptor B (4 points): Needs prompting to be able to undertake any journey to avoid overwhelming psychological distress to the claimant

Descriptor E (10 points): Cannot undertake any journey because it would cause overwhelming psychological distress to the claimant

OPD means distress related to a mental health condition or intellectual or cognitive impairment resulting in a severe anxiety state in which the symptoms are so severe that the person cannot undertake a journey without being overwhelmed. The threshold is a very high one - a claimant who is anxious, worried or emotional does not meet it.

The threshold is a very high one - a claimant who, without prompting, would be left feeling anxious, worried or emotional does not meet it. OPD may occur in conditions such as generalised anxiety disorder, panic disorder, dementia or agoraphobia.

Any journey’ means that in order to satisfy the descriptor on a day the person must require prompting when undertaking every single journey on that day to avoid 

If the person can manage to leave the home to make a journey once without prompting then on that day the descriptor is not satisfied. For example, a claimant who can make visits to the local shop or collect their children from school without prompting on most days will not satisfy this descriptor, even if they’re unable to undertake other journeys without prompting during the same day

teaselMay

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81959127#Comment_81959127

Thanks, couldn't make the acronym make sense, more coffee

i_like_cats

Just to update this, my PIP MR was not accepted and I was given 4 points again. I am not sure whether to go to tribunal or not. It does seem my path to 8 points is quite narrow. If I did go to Tribunal, I would make sure to submit written statements of support, if obtainable, from my GP, my audiologist, the disabled charity that's helping me look for work / prepare for work, and maybe the CBT psychologist I saw. My very detailed MR letter was just ignored completely when considered against the other documentation. Interestingly the DWP accessed my UC work capability assessment, too, in making their PIP decision.

TL;DR but here is a summary of what I said in my MR letter. I dropped any attempt to score on mobility, since I am now riding my bicycle again and I got a disabled bus pass so am taking buses. I am also regularly going to a gym as of the past few months, so mobility is fine.

For Activity 3, managing therapy or monitoring a health condition, I asked for 1 point under descriptor 3(b). My case was that I need prompting or support to recognise deterioration in anxiety and binge eating disorder early enough to act. When anxiety rises, I can lose insight, go onto autopilot and then spiral into avoidance, dissociation, binge eating and impulsive spending. I referred to a lifelong pattern in which structured help such as CBT and eating disorder groups had helped me, while long periods without structure had led to decline. My parents give me background stability by letting me live at home, but they do not reliably notice deterioration or help me apply strategies early enough.

For Activity 4, washing and bathing, I agreed with the existing 2 points under 4(b) and asked for them to remain. I explained that I have to remove my hearing aid and CROS aid to wash or bathe. I am completely deaf in my right ear and have about 75% hearing on my left side, so this leaves me much more cut off from my surroundings. I referred to difficulty hearing alarms or warnings, dizziness or disorientation after washing, and having dropped or misplaced hearing aids around the bathroom or bedroom.

For Activity 7, communicating verbally, I accepted the existing 2 points under 7(b), but asked for 7(c), worth 4 points, to be considered. My CROS and hearing aids help, but they do not restore normal two-ear hearing or make complex verbal information reliable in ordinary face-to-face environments. The difficulty becomes much greater with background noise, several speakers, unfamiliar voices, unfamiliar places, or important multi-sentence information. In those situations I may miss information, misunderstand its order or significance, or need someone to repeat, rephrase, slow down, check my understanding or structure the exchange.

For Activity 9, engaging with other people face to face, I argued mainly for 9(b), worth 2 points, while also asking for 9(c), worth 4 points, to be considered. I relied on the assessment report’s own notes that I engage minimally, wear headphones, avoid people, limit conversation, and that my hearing loss contributes to this. Deafness and anxiety can lead me either to withdraw and say as little as possible, or to overcompensate by talking too much, oversharing, speaking too quickly, sounding rude or hectoring, or becoming frustrated when I feel unheard or misunderstood. I said that I need reassurance and prompting around unfamiliar, noisy or socially pressured encounters. The face-to-face settings I manage best are structured and purpose-led, such as back-to-work and disabled charity support meetings.

For Activity 10, making budgeting decisions, I asked for 2 points under 10(b). I accepted that I can handle simple transactions, basic prices and routine bills. My argument was that anxiety, low mood and binge eating disorder affect complex budgeting over time: looking at the overall position, planning ahead, resisting impulsive spending, dealing with financial pressure before debt worsens, and taking action before avoidance takes hold. I referred to roughly £9,000 of credit-card debt, binge-food spending during anxious periods, and the fact that living with my parents means I currently do not have rent, utility or household bills, which can make my financial position look simpler than it would otherwise be.

Across the whole MR, my central argument was that DWP had treated highly controlled situations as proof of general functioning: a quiet, scheduled, one-to-one telephone assessment; official appointments; occasional public transport; gym attendance; and brief transactions. I argued that these do not show that I can reliably manage complex communication, face-to-face engagement or budgeting in ordinary daily life.

Like I said, I am not sure if I will go to tribunal or not.