Is all the wall a party wall?

lifebesidethesea

hi forum- our house side wall is our neighbours car park wall which extends along and up to also attach to their flat on the first floor. They say that the tall part of the wall attached to the flat is a party wall but that the low part (our kitchen) that runs along the car park is not. Is it true that a wall can be half party half not?

Section62

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6663357/is-all-the-wall-a-party-wall

Why do you want it to be a party wall, if the neighbour thinks it isn't?

Andy_L

AIUI its the act of being on the boundary & 1/2 the wall on your land & 1/2 on the neighbours land that make it a party wall, not that it has a building on one or both sides

"Party walls stand on the land of 2 or more owners and either:

• form part of a building
• do not form part of a building, such as a garden wall (not wooden fences)

Walls on one owner’s land used by other owners (2 or more) to separate their buildings are also party walls."

https://www.gov.uk/party-walls-building-works

ETA: here's a better link, with pictures

"

Party wall type A

A wall is a “party wall” if it stands astride the boundary of land belonging to two (or more) different owners.

Such a wall:

• is part of one building (see diagram 1)
• or separates two (or more) buildings (see diagram 2)
• or consists of a “party fence wall” (see diagram 3)

"

Diagram 1:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/preventing-and-resolving-disputes-in-relation-to-party-walls/the-party-wall-etc-act-1996-explanatory-booklet#introduction

Andy_L

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81955858#Comment_81955858

So the neighbour has to pay (part of) the cost of repairs?

WIAWSNB

I'd suggest that all these walls are effectively 'party' where your two physical properties share them. Where they are not shared, they are owned by the respective properties.

The white wall alongside their carpark is your wall, and yours to maintain. The creamish wall going up to the first floor building is theirs, and ditto. The building on the far right coming out at right angles - who does that belong to? If it is a different property to that of the cream wall to its left, then the shared bit inside is truly 'party', and a joint responsibility.

That is my understanding.

Should the issue be about maintenance and repair, I'd suggest that - if both need patching, re-rendering, painting - you get it done at the same time, and split the cost according to square metreage.

lifebesidethesea

thanks everyone- that was very helpful. Now to convince the neighbours!

Section62

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81955972#Comment_81955972

Bear in mind if it is a party wall the Party Wall Act imposes duties on you to give notice to the neighbour if you want to do certain work to the wall, and if the neighbour disputes this then the Act allows the neighbour to have a surveyor appointed (at your cost) to resolve the dispute.

Given there isn't much the neighbour is likely to want to do on their side of the wall, the potential costs of PWA admin/disputes are likely to be largely one way (i.e. at your cost)

You might want to weigh up the 50% cost of repair work (if this is the reason for asking) vs the cost of appointing a PWS each time a dispute arises.

Personally, if the neighbour wanted to disclaim ownership of the wall (and all that implies) - and is willing to put it in writing - then I'd bite their hand off.

WIAWSNB

Assuming it is - technically - a 'Party' wall, ie it straddles the known boundary, who is responsible for maintaining the visible white and cream walls?

Section62

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81956014#Comment_81956014

That's where things could get complicated. Strictly there is joint responsibility for a party wall, so the simple answer is 'both'. But costs are not necessarily split 50:50.

The neighbour could argue that to them the wall is just a garden wall, sufficient maintenance could be scraping the flaking paint away, patch repairing the render, then slapping a cheap coat of exterior paint over it. For the OP the wall (presumably) forms part of the dwelling and the issue (presumably) is with damp getting into the room on the other side of the wall. If so, the work required to make the wall waterproof could be considerably more extensive than would be necessary for a common garden wall. In which case, is it fair for the costs to be split 50:50? This is where a PWS could come into the equation - to determine what a 'fair' allocation of the costs might be, and issue an award on that basis.

There's also an issue of how that wall came into being, and what agreements were made. For example, was it constructed as part of a single dwelling which has subsequently been split, was it an extension added later, did the neighbour agree to it being built across the boundary in return for the OP's dwelling owning the wall 100% and having 100% maintenance liability? Lots of questions, not all of them easy to answer.

Something to note though… it appears there may be a parapet wall on the upper roof (near the ridge on the right hand side of the photo) and I wouldn't be 100% sure from the picture that is on the same alignment as the cream-painted wall.

I'm no expert on party walls, I'm just not sure this is a clear-cut 50:50 situation. This is one of those questions where Doozergirl has the expert understanding….

lifebesidethesea

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81955999#Comment_81955999

but what would it imply?

WIAWSNB

Do you know where the actual boundary line lies? Do you have a deeds map to suggest this? Could we have a looksee, please?