Power of Attorney Gifts

ElectricCarMan

I hold a Lasting Power of Attorney to manage my dad’s finance and property affairs. Dad has recently gone into full time residential care, currently using his savings to pay fees, his property has been put up for sale which will fund care Home costs when his savings run out in around 18months.

A sibling has approached my father asking for a gift of between 7-10k to fund a shoulder operation. Dad, who is in his 90’s and suffering from dementia wants to gift the money and asked me to sort it out.

As far as I’m concerned all his savings and house sale proceeds are to be used to fund his care costs and any token gifts he wishes to make ie small amounts for Christmas, Birthdays etc.

On this basis I have refused the request. This has caused a split in the family the majority accepting my decision, a few objecting and saying I should carry out dads wishes.

Just wondering if anyone on the forum has been in a similar position and how they dealt with it.

Thanks in advance of any replies.

Jemma01

There's a reason for the power of attorney and that's the fact your dad has dementia and needs someone else to make the judgement for him. Asking a vulnerable person for money is rather callous in my opinion. I'm with you, would have said no in the interest of the dad, who could well live until 100+ years. There's the NHS to pay for the shoulder, get on the waiting list. Also bypassing you to go to the vulnerable person screams bad intention and emotional manipulation.

RAS

As attorney your only responsibility is to manage dad's finances in in his best interests. You are not allowed to do anything with his money which in is the best interests of anyone else.

Doing otherwise could lead to you being removed as attorney and someone then having to apply for deputyship, which takes ages, costs a lot and involves annual accounting and certainly wouldn't countenance this payment.

I say this as someone who had a blow a gasket a couple times because one sibling thought their interests weren't being taken into account and another was trying to play peacekeeper. Neither attorney had the right to agree to the proposals as they weren't in the donor's best interests.

If he routinely bought small presents for grandchildren's birthdays and Christmas, you can continue to do this in his name. We also factored in buying and mailing Christmas cards to the donor's friends and large family. To which many responded helping the donor feel thought about.

Albermarle

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81954689#Comment_81954689

I am not disputing what you say, but would be interested in your thoughts about a situation, ( which it may be in this case) where an attorney is handling the details of finances, as the Dad has lost some cognitive ability, but is still able to have an opinion/make requests.

The Dad may genuinely want to help his other son with money for an operation.

To me generally there seems to be a big grey area, between a person handling their own affairs and an attorney handling 100% of affairs. Some older people with mild dementia have good days and not so good days.

RAS

If the attorney thinks dad has competence they need to ask those who can assess competence if they agreed he can make the decision. Or ask the OPG.

Registration took time and getting advice on whether we could progress with plans but not implement was them was impossible (very small costs involved at that stage).

One problem for the OP might be that those who need to make the assessment might not feel they know him well enough yet to make the assessment. Dad might however already have had an assessment.

I do appreciate that there's a difference between assessing that someone can't manage at home and assessing whether they can make other decisions. The donor made decisions about their day to day life when possible.

elsien

The OPG has guidance on gifting.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/giving-gifts/giving-gifts-web-version

Presuming that your father has lost capacity around his finances and unless he has unlimited amount amounts of money and is the habit of giving large gifts, this is unlikely to be either in his best interests or allowable.

Plus knowing that his money is going to run out, he is clearly going to need himself in the future.

Tell your disputing family members to read the guidance and point out it could lead to your LPA being revoked if you do not follow the guide. It is not optional.

elsien

@Albermarle. The scope of the LPA would change according to the decision, in those circumstances.
If dad has capacity around smaller day today spending then those decisions are his to make. That does not mean he has capacity to make bigger financial decisions, and for many people they tend more to being in the middle of this than clearly at one end or the other until the dementia clearly progresses.

The LPA is to support people to make as many decisions as they can and then step in for the ones that they can’t.
I work with a lot of people who can decide what to spend their money on on a day-to-day basis, but don’t know the difference between 50 quid and 5000. Or they don’t recognise they have support needs so see no point in funding the care home.

The appointee manages the contact with the DWP, all big decisions and ensures they have savings and their bills are paid, but gives them an allowance for them to do shopping, et cetera each week, and which they spend as they choose.

Savvy_Sue

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81955131#Comment_81955131

Not only that the OP's LPA might be revoked, but the consequences of that. They might think "oh good, so we can boot ElectricCarMan from being LPA, and one of us can take it over, and WE can do what we like with Dad's money."

Which, as anyone with more than cursory knowledge knows, is not what will happen: a Deputy will be appointed, at a cost, at great inconvenience, taking a long time, and their actions will be more closely scrutinised.

Anyone who thinks Dad should pay for the shoulder op needs to know this!

silvercar

I can see it both ways.

If funding this operation is something Dad would have done had he not had dementia AND the amount of money he has from the sale of the property is likely to last longer than he does, bearing in mind the average length of stay on a care home is only about 2 years AND Dad is already in his 90s, I can see why a future beneficiary would rather have the money now than have to wait in pain for however long it takes to get their future inheritance.

On the other hand, if they really don’t want to wait in the NHS queue, they could borrow the money through a bank or credit card loan.

Albermarle

 I can see why a future beneficiary would rather have the money now than have to wait in pain for however long it takes to get their future inheritance.

I think it is difficult to comment too much, as we do not know how bad the shoulder is, or how bad it is affecting their life.. Also is the sibling generally an honest person, or the sort to try it on.

If he was the honest type and say his shoulder injury was preventing him earning a living, feeding his kids etc., then from a purely moral point of view I would be sympathetic to paying for the operation. You could even argue it was in the Dad's best interest emotionally to be able to support his family.

On the other hand the shoulder issue might not be that major and he is just after the money. We just do not know.

Jemma01

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81955810#Comment_81955810

This is still irrelevant to a vulnerable person with dementia that could live a long time and needs access to his money. Nor is it relevant to OP as the poa. If that person's life is so badly affected by this, the NHS will bring them forward in the priority list, or they can borrow from other sources. Honest or not honest, OP's role is to ensure the best interest of a vulnerable person with dementia, and not speculate whether dad would have paid or not if he had the full capacity.