Help seeing a will as a beneficiary not executor

Afterthoughtbakewell

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81935784#Comment_81935784

Thank you I have now just added to this thread with more information.

This is partly the issue I had.

If the will does indeed clearly state how the money is to be spent how can they even offer me anything in surplus? They keep changing what it is and the amount that it is.

Grumpy_chap

"

However the amount keeps changing, from 100k to 200k and then sometimes less, so I asked whether we could sign an agreement that said I would get a % of whatever was left at the end, but was told the solicitor had told her not to sign anything.

"

Quite correct - the Executor must implement the Will as it is written.

You can't simply make an agreement between you and the Executor.

A Will is normally written such that certain properties / assets are left for specific named individuals and then the Residual Estate (whatever is left at the end) is split according to percentages between a list of individuals (known as Remaindermen).

Generally, there are few grounds for that to be challenged - assuming the Will was properly created and the Testator was of free and sound mind when the Will was written.

It can also be possible to make adjustments via Deed of Variation but it does not sound as though that would be relevant here.

With regards to your specific questions:

-How do you see the will before probate as a beneficiary if you have suspicions of irregularities or other issues regarding the legitimacy timing and wording of the will? Do I need to hire a solicitor to file a certain challenge to see the will?

You have no right to see the Will prior to Probate. You suggest upthread that the Executor / Solicitor will tell you what is in the Will. Ask for that information.

-Do I have claim for work I have organised and time I have spent on helping with the selling and general running of the properties during probare if I am subsequently not given a lump sum?

No. Unless, this is employment for the trading business as a going concern and not linked to the administration of the Estate. If you are not the Executor, why are you involved in the administration of the Estate?

-When a will is worded unclearly what happens? Ie if the will does indeed say ' the money is to be spent on running 'X' who actually recieves that money to run X?

The Executor needs to distribute the Estate in accordance with the Will. Was the Will written with the aid of a Solicitor? Either way, the Executor seems to have engaged the services of a Solicitor to support the administration of the Estate. That Solicitor will give guidance to the Executor as to how the Will is to be interpreted if any of the content is not in plain phraseology.

-How much do me and my mothers disabilities and conditions matter here?

Not a great deal. There could be a case if your were Dependents of the deceased and there was no provision but it seems as though quite substantial provision has been made.

Can you confirm that this is an Estate and Beneficiaries in England? Not Scotland.

GrumpyDil

Probably the best you are going to get is that the will becomes public after probate has been obtained, at which point you will be able to get a copy.

Daniel54

I would add that,as has been said,the will must be strictly executed according to it’s provisions.In this (and other contexts) being next of kin has no legal bearing.

Afterthoughtbakewell

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81935921#Comment_81935921

Yes , England.

So given that this is the case why is the executor offering me random amounts dependant on what is left after?

The executor has been asking me to help with the selling and maintenance saying that ' the more the houses are sold for, the more you will get at the end.'

Are they having me along here and if so what can be done? Surely this is breach of their position as executor?

The executor has told me that one house is left to me, one to her and the rest is to be spent 'continuing the work in 'x'. That doesnt specify who the money actually goes to.

If the executor has specifically told me I have been left things in the will, and then they later tell me I am not is this also breach of their position?

Should I get a solicitor if they do not let me see the will, due to my above concerns?

Thanks.

Daniel54

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81935979#Comment_81935979

You are nowhere near a stage where it would be advisable to appoint your own solicitor.

The executor cannot offer you anything .The exact amount due to you will be established after probate and finalisation of the estate assets and liabilities

In that respect your uncle seems to have been very generous to you and your mother.However it is entirely possible that those gifts fall within the seven year exemption and will therefore drop back into the estate for IHT purposes.It is not difficult to suppose this is quite a complicated estate and that the final amount due to you is to a greater or lesser degree uncertain.

You could of course refuse to help with continued administration of the properties , but it is hard to see how that would help anyone other than being perceived as unhelpful,to put it mildly.

I believe you are underestimating the complexities of finalising your uncle's estate.I would suggest you take a deep breath and maintain a civil relationship with the ex partner and let matters take their course up to and including the grant of propate..

Grumpy_chap

"

So given that this is the case why is the executor offering me random amounts dependant on what is left after?

"

Quite likely because, at this stage, the Executor simply does not have all the information to know what the residual amount will be. The Will will say something like "Item X to Person A", "Item Y to Person B" and so on, then all other items to be sold and the funds distributed in according to the percentages K, L, M to people P, Q, R.

I don't think I can help a great deal further until you have receive the answer back about what the Will says. Have you asked the Executor and the Solicitor for that information? (I note you have asked for a copy of the Will, but they seem unable / unwilling to share that, so knowing "what the Will says" is probably as good as you can get.)

Daniel54

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81936030#Comment_81936030

I agree with your thoughts

To add,having only recently finalised a complex estate,the three executors agreed at the outset,and on the advice of our solicitors,,that we would not share the contents of the will with any beneficiaries,including the named charities,until probate had been granted

Afterthoughtbakewell

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81936026#Comment_81936026

Thanks.

Its difficult to know as initially I was advised to appoint my own soilicitor before probate was grantred as things can be harder to challenge afterwards ( apparently).

The house my mother lives at is worth around £325000 so I think it is just under the IT threshold anyway.

Its not that I want to refuse to help, its more that I am being advised not to ( admittedly not by experts) because of the uncertainty regarding how the money will be dealt with afterwards.

Could you shed some more light on what happens when wills are left weith as degree of uncertainty.

Ie if the will does indeed simply state ' 'To carry on the work at the guest house' without there being a clearly named beneficiary of this, and there is for sake of argument 1.5 million left over at the end, how is that quantified and to whom does it go to to carry that work on? At the moment the executor has said exactly that ' to carry on the work' but hasnt specifically said it goes to them.

I still find it odd that they would be mentioning a lump sum if the money was already specifically alloted to something else.

Does it then become a matter for the executor and solicitor to work out and would we then have any say in the matter ie for us to carry on the work as well or carry it on jointly?

I do admit that part of my concern is a selfish one- he was planning to help me with my chronic nerve pain condition, which is extremely debilitating, and to lose my last chance of help would be extremely difficult to take.

Thanks.

bobster2

Right now you have no idea whether the will is unclear about anything. Just because the exectutor's description seems unclear - it does not mean the wording really is unclear.

The will becomes a public document available online as soon as probate is granted. This will be before the assets / funds start to be distributed - so you can read it at that point and raise any issues at that time if needed.