PCN already paid by Enterprise Car Club, what next ?

SuperDuper7

Hi,

First time posting. This forum had already been super helpful in resolving a seperate ongoing PCN unrelated to car hire so kudos.

However I'm having particular issue with the one as the hiree.

Enterprise Car Club (ECC) have already paid the PCN and are charging myself ( as the hiree) with the reduced rate plus the admin fee. ECC have stated they will be adding the charges to my account in the next 7 days and have attached a photocopy of the first page of the fine (appaently there's bits on the back ??)

The alleged offence by the driver is that the vechile was not registered (ANPR) and the location is a block of flats. There's no photo on the letter of the terms of parking but also I can't appeal online as its already been paid.

I've read through ECC's terms (i've been a customer prior to March so their previous terms would apply here : https://www.enterprisecarclub.co.uk/gb/en/terms/terms-and-conditions.html.

There terms mention:

9.3         For billing details and penalty charges (https://www.enterprisecarclub.co.uk/gb/en/about/membership-policies-other-charges.html)

Which makes reference to:

Parking tickets

Parking tickets are your responsibility and must be paid for directly by you. If the ticket has to be processed by the club, an administration fee of £30 will be added (we are often charged more by our leasing companies – as they receive the tickets and forward to us).

However, says nothing about them paying parking tickets, especially one I fully intended on appealling

While the newbies thread has been helpful, I'm at a bit of a loss of what to do since the hiring company has already paid. Any advice would be appreciated and if there's any information I should attach in any folow up posts please let me know.

Coupon-mad

Refuse to bail them out and reply pointing out they had no right to just pay. Bounce the payment with your card provider as unauthorised and not covered by the terms.

SuperDuper7

Thank you for the reply, I was going to use a similar tone and style to what was used in this thread:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6631453/enterprise-car-club-private-parking-penalty-notice/p1

I'll update with any relevant responses

SuperDuper7

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81934192#Comment_81934192

I’ve received a rather confusing reply which I’m unsure what to make of as the terms do not mention what the agent had referred to in the email.

From: ECC

Thank you for your email.

 

ECC have commented that as per the terms and conditions, you accepted you could be charged for any parking tickets in the event liability was not transferred:

Parking tickets are your responsibility and must be paid for directly by you. If the ticket has to be processed by the club, an administration fee of £30 will be added (we are often charged more by our leasing companies – as they receive the tickets and forward to us).

ECC paid the parking ticket and please note this is their right as the legal owner of the vehicle. The reason the penalties or charges are paid is to free the vehicle of any obligations and to avoid the penalty/charge becoming higher.

 

There is nothing much we can do about this; your dispute is with the issuing agency who declined your appeal.

 

Your dispute sits with the issuer of the charge and we recommend contacting them again. It is the issuer’s choice to decline an appeal and this is not within ECC’s liability. 

 

As a reminder, your acceptance to our terms and conditions allows Enterprise Car Club full authorisation to process any applicable charges in respect of administration fees for PCNs.

 

This applies to all PCNs which are incurred relating to your reservation during or after your hire period, as well as for moving infraction notices that arise because of your reservation. - https://www.enterprisecarclub.co.uk/gb/en/about/membership-policies-other-charges.html

 

I hope this clarifies the matter and thank you for your patience during this time.

 

Bare in mind this is what I sent them in short:

• Told them they breached the Consumer Rights Act 2015. By not passing this letter on to the hirer
• Have prevented me from exercising my right to appeal.
• Failed to transfer liability to the hirer and as a result have admitted liability for their actions by conduct.
• The terms also state that the hirer must pay the fines directly which they’ve prevented

It’s almost as if they didn’t read the email I had already sent ?

Any idea of next steps ?

Coupon-mad

Reiterate that you will mot be paying it because they interfered with your right to appeal at the point when only the DRIVER could be liable. Not ECC. It was not theirs to pay and the car club contract doesn't give them this scope. It specifically says that paying is the driver's liability alone. Knee jerk paying a scary-looking invoice mimicking a penalty is ECC's error and they need to understand that private parking charges (from a currently out of control and unregulated sector, being finally brought to book by Government intervention in the Autumn) are not fines.

The payment will not be made and ECC need to re-write their terms if they want the right to unilaterally just pay scam invoices at driver liability & appeal stage.

All they had to do was transfer liability as the fake PCN offered.

SuperDuper7

Thank you,

I do have a follow up question though, just in case it gets to the stage of having to get the BVRLA involved. It looks like they've scrubbed all mention of the memorandum on 'fines', charges and liability (mentioned in similar threads: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6574115/bvrla-guidelines-on-transfer-of-liability/p1)

Page 18 of their code of conduct (https://bvrla.co.uk/getmedia/a62336e7-60b5-4324-8cfd-0b03a388e56a/BVRLA-Rental-Code-of-Conduct.pdf)

Which states, in a rather rudimentary way:

Some charges may arise after the rental agreement has been closed –
parking or speeding fines and their related administrative fees, for example.
In such cases the customer must be provided with supporting evidence and
made aware of the amount before their nominated method of payment is
charged.

Members will advise customers of the steps they should take if they wish
to dispute the charges, including details on how to contact any relevant
customer service department

Which is the only mention of charges of this nature on their entire website.

I do intend to mention the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 but I don't know if its also applicable to private car parking spaces

Is there any up to date information on what their stance is, if there has been a change ?

Coupon-mad

I do intend to mention the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 but I don't know if its also applicable to private car parking spaces.

It doesn't because there was no offence.

Doesn't really matter what their stance is but I'd just refuse to pay. I wouldn't involve the BVRLA because this month we saw a fudgement from them in a similar complaint where they said their member could pay a PCN and tough luck!

James_Poisson

There is nothing much we can do about this; your dispute is with the issuing agency who declined your appeal.

Your dispute sits with the issuer of the charge and we recommend contacting them again. It is the issuer’s choice to decline an appeal and this is not within ECC’s liability. 

Well that bit confused me they seem to think you appealed and it was refused which is total nonsense, and you never had the chance to contact them once let alone again, they seem totally confused, there is no "agency" was no "fine" was no "appeal" was no "decline" what a total amateurish bunch!

Castle

Something else for the CMA to investigate.

Coupon-mad

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81939192#Comment_81939192

Good point.