Application of packaged travel regulations

Grumpy_chap

Thanks. Where does this three weeks come from?

Three weeks.

You posted today, Tuesday 17th March.

You stated that you are due to leave on 8th April.

By reference to any calendar, from today until 8th April is 3 weeks plus 1 day (inclusive of today and date of travel). I simply used 3 weeks as an indicator of the time between now and travel date.

You need to be patient and await the travel operator to confirm any changes much nearer to the date of travel.

eskbanker

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81927108#Comment_81927108

You said you're travelling on 8 April, i.e. in three weeks time.

You quoted the post you were referring to on that occasion, which makes it clear what your point is - it would have been worth doing on the other posts too as it's difficult to follow otherwise…

djp29

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81927119#Comment_81927119

I think this response is missing the point of my original question.

The issue is that the FCDO guidance is not time limited. The travel regulations say if FCDO guidance states travel is not recommended then you should be able to get a full and immediate refund. The holiday companies are all putting an interpretation on this guidance but even this is not clear on what timeframe is being used, which is not helpful to consumers.

Thankfully more holiday operators are seeing sense over the last 24 hours, including my own which has offered cancellations for travel up until 15 April. But again why this arbitrary date?!

Grumpy_chap

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81928921#Comment_81928921

I think it is you that is missing the point.

The guidance to the regulations does not state that "if FCDO guidance state travel is not recommended then you should be able to get a full an immediate refund" https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/62dea082e90e0766afece5ee/package-travel-regulations-2018-guidance.pdf

The guidance does state that termination by the organiser would include "prevented from performing the contract because of unavoidable and extraordinary circumstances" and the FCDO guidance is given as one of the examples of determining extraordinary circumstances.

Following such a termination, the refund is due within 14 days (not "immediate" as you state).

Your comment that the FCDO advice is not time limited I think is a complete red herring. The FCDO advice applies to "now" and only to "now", that is so whether the advice is "do not travel" or whether travel is perfectly OK.

In the case of Dubai, it may be perfectly OK to travel by 8th April (still 2.5 weeks away) or the advice may be unchanged from present "avoid all but essential travel". If the advice is unchanged then, and only then, the travel operator is "prevented from performing the contract because of unavoidable and extraordinary circumstances" and, hence the cancellation / termination is triggered.

Consider another scenario to assess the element of the FCDO advice not being time limited. Say you had a holiday booked to Tenerife travelling on 8th April. There is currently no FCDO advice against travelling. That advice is "not time limited". Now consider a volcanic eruption on 6th April resulting in widespread failure of utilities across the island of Tenerife and the FCDO update their advice to "avoid all but essential travel" for Tenerife. Would you accept the tour operator saying you have to go and there is no refund because they made a decision today (on 20th March) and the FCDO advice then (which was not time limited) was OK? OR, would you expect the tour operator to make a decision on 7th April when the FCDO advice was updated?

If you would expect the tour operator to make a later decision in the case of the volcanic eruption, then you need to accept that it is reasonable for the tour operator to make a later decision in the case of current events in Dubai.

domainexpansion

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81928921#Comment_81928921

did you manage to get a full refund of the package based on FCDO advice? Or did they give you a refund due to the flight being cancelled

MyRealNameToo

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81928921#Comment_81928921

The FCDO advice is at a point in time only, just because they say you shouldn't go today wouldnt mean you can cancel your 2030 plans.

The guidance states its "unavoidable and extraordinary circumstances occur at the place of destination or its immediate vicinity which significantly affect the performance of the package or the carriage of passengers to the destination." Timing therefore is naturally variable depending on the nature of the extraordinary circumstances. So the airport has fallen into a giant sink hole then yes that isnt going to be fixed in a months time, a hurricane is due to pass near by in a few days and you're travelling in 4 weeks then you clearly have to wait as if no damage is sustained then there will be no extraordinary circumstances at the point you are due to travel.

What's happening right now can stop as quickly as it started.