Advice on Supreme Auctions terms and conditions, before court action

nonlinear

Hello, I recently bought 4 items from a Supreme Auctions online auction. All 4 items are non functional, one item (a Nikon D7100 camera body) is complete scrap. Focussing on the Nikon, I contacted their "complaints portal" and was told to read the terms and conditions, and that no further communication would be replied to.

Going down the small claims route, I sent the initial written complaint, no reply, then the pre-action letter, still no reply. Before going to court I want to get peoples opinion.

The auction terms stated:

Important Auction Terms

All sales are strictly trade-to-trade
By signing up to an auction, you confirm that you are a trade purchaser and understand that the Consumer Rights Act does not apply to any transaction.
All items are sold as seen.

The Consumer Rights Act does not apply to auction purchases.

All images used are for catalogue reference purposes only and may not reflect exact condition of items
We highly recommend viewing items in person before bidding

“All items within this sale are grade B or UNCHECKED & UNTESTED RETURNS”

Grade B:items may have damaged packaging, ex display or be missing accessories.

Unchecked and untested items can include faulty goods which can also be missing parts or accessories.

_______________________________

My argument is I am covered by the 1979 Sale of Goods act which states an item must match it's description.

The Nikon is not grade B, as it came with a sticker saying "grade D" stuck to it, so the issue is whether it is an untested return.

To be a RETURN I expected the article to be either rejected shortly after purchase, or returned within the warranty period. The Nikon is definitely more worn than would be possible in the warranty period, so in my opinion it did not belong in the sale.

Sorry for the long post, but I thought a clear explanation important.

Thanks

Woodstok2000

I think a return could be any item that's been returned for any reason. E.g. I buy a camera, use it for 10 years, break it, send it to the manufacturer to fix. They take one look and tell me its a minimum of £x, which i don't want to pay so I leave it with them. That's a return.

caprikid1

"All sales are strictly trade-to-trade"

Are you a trade purchaser ?

They will argue you breached the terms of sale before you even made a bid

How much are we talking about ?

RFW

I'd suggest contacting Trading Standards. They may say that the Consumer Rights Act does not apply but TS will likely see that differently and be interested.

"Returns" can cover anything. I've been in and around auctions for decades and would never buy a return unseen.

Small claims court can take you ages to get any money, if at all, especially if they defend, which costs you more money. Obviously if you win you'll likely get it back but it's no certainty. Trading Standards may be a quicker way to get your refund, or, at least, advise you of best course of action.

soolin

if this was a B2B purchase you have less rights than if you were a consumer and would be subject to the contract you agreed to. Did you arrange to view the items before bidding as per their FAQs?

RFW

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81922093#Comment_81922093

Most auction houses have that, or variations thereof, in their Ts & Cs. Trading Standards will be able to verify if that is valid, they often consider it not to be. It depends on a number of things, just saying it doesn't necessarily make it so.

nonlinear

Thank you for all your comments.

I am not a trade buyer but as RFW points out, I'm not sure that is important. It means the consumer rights act does not apply, but I am claiming under the 1979 Sale of Goods act, which is relevant.

This was an internet auction, they are in Sheffield, I am in Eastbourne. I found the auction on the Bidspotter platform, so they are relying on internet traffic for increased trade where most bidders will not be able to view the items.

How do I contact Trading Standards? I am already talking to Citizens Advice which seems the only way to contact Trading Standards these days. They have said they will raise this case with TS.

In hindsight I feel extremely silly but the Bidspotter platform mixes up results from a number of auctions, all with different terms and standards. I have used the platform a number of times without issue.

I've mentioned this to several people and they all think that "returns" means customer returns from shortly after purchase, or within the warranty period. Supreme Auctions link "return items" with grade B items suggesting the items are of similar quality, even if they are not. Why would you put grade B items alongside total crap, other than fooling people?

The question I have is how reasonable do they have to be and stay within the law. Their terms indicate I am in the wrong and have no rights. Maybe I need to chalk this down to experience, but it's very annoying as I have no doubt they are exploiting the situation. Trustpilot is awash with similar complaints about them.

RFW

https://www.gov.uk/find-local-trading-standards-office

FYI I used to be an auctioneer and Trading Standards told me that no matter what I said I couldn't get away from consumer rights if a member of public chose to buy from me. That was a trade auction too, so bulk lots, never single items.

soolin

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81922282#Comment_81922282

just a couple of points, whether you chose not to view the lot or not is immaterial, they did give you the opportunity to do so.

Also Trading standards don’t act on your behalf AFAIK, they merely take complaints and collate them to see if action is needed to be taken generally against a trader.

This is not really my field, but I would have thought whether the contract to buy can be enforced even as B2B depends on what terms the items were sold under. If these were guaranteed working, in good order, or anything similar then it would seem you had a good case. However according to the blurb these were sold without any guarantee of condition as Grade B

“Unchecked and untested items can include faulty goods which can also be missing parts or accessories.”

the Nikon seems to be the one mentioned specifically by you as being stickered grade D , which suggests that one was not sold as described, the others you haven’t mentioned.

If you are going to go to law on this one, and this won’t be cheap due to the B2B requirement, you might need to decide whether your outlay value is worth the risks.

nonlinear

The trading standards website does explicitly say they won't take action on your behalf. They refer you to Citizens advice who act as a triage service for them.

As RFW points out, you can put whatever you want on your terms and conditions, without it being necessarily legal. That is my question, is what they are doing legal? This is not a traditional auction business, that have embraced the internet to get wider coverage. Supreme Auctions are entirely internet based, if you want to inspect an item you have to make an appointment . A google search on "auction returns" mentions that one use of the phrase means items that have failed to sell at a previous auction. That is not the widely understood usage of the phrase, and they are relying on this to endlessly cycle unsold items until they sell.

All 4 items I bought were non functional, non were grade B. I think I can get 3 of them working with minimal expenditure but as I said, the Nikon is total scrap, couldn't even sell it on ebay for £10.

I might look at crowdfunding a legal case. I know there are a lot of very !!!!!! off customers out there.

Incidentally, if you look at their website and then use google maps to look at their premises, there is a serious mismatch. A Companies House search shows the true scale of the operation.

caprikid1

Ultimately this comes down to what did you spend on these auction lots and what are you willing to spend to attempt to get your money back.

You may or may not have a case but ultimately you will either need to commit a lot of time or money or both to even attempt to get an outcome.

Rest assured anyone who operates in this space will not be versed in fighting such legal cases and most likely ignore you till you actually get an assigned court date or similar committed legal action.

It could well be worth seeking out cases they have lost and one what grounds.

Good luck OP