Parking charge notice for failing to enter reg no but no way to enter on machine?

orlandopotto

Hi all,

I parked on City of London-owned land but parking enforced by Horizon. Received a parking charge (yellow sticker on windscreen) for failing to comply with terms. I had a valid ticket visible on the dash which expired at 16:36 and the charge was issued around 16:00. Evidence pics on the portal were not close enough to show the ticket on the dash so I submitted a photo of that, as well as close-up of the valid ticket. I thought it was a simple error on their part and an easy win on mine so appealed right away through Horizon's portal (sorry, only read the newbies thread today and understood I should have waited longer to appeal).

I've now received a rejection of the appeal with a £15 settlement reduced from £100. Now they're saying that the reason for the charge is because the T&Cs say no valid reg number was supplied. Reviewing the car park on Google maps and photos that my partner took in the car park, the parking meters look to be the old type that do not even have a keypad, so I know there is no way I could have entered this if I tried, like this:

https://images.pexels.com/photos/29557509/pexels-photo-29557509/free-photo-of-person-using-pay-station-in-urban-area.jpeg?auto=compress&cs=tinysrgb&dpr=1&w=500

Horizon have now said their appeals process is closed; I guess this is my bad as if I'd known what exactly they thought I was in breach of, I would have supplied evidence of the machines, too. They're saying to go through POPLA, but a lot of threads say that's more or less unwinnable. The landowner I presume is City of London or the local council — should I go to them and ask them to remove the PCN? Or just wait for court? I still have the physical ticket and the charge that they issued.

Any help would be much appreciated!

Half_way

you said a lot of threads, where?

orlandopotto

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81917293#Comment_81917293

Admittedly there is none in my exact circumstance and I can't find all of them, but the sense I get is that they protect the landowner's interests, not the consumer.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6556813/incomplete-car-reg/p2

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5902542/machine-wasn-039-t-working-kind-of

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6586187/popla

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6520090/parking-charge-for-not-entering-reg-number

James_Poisson

Why do you think this car park belongs to the City of London, authorities do not use private parking charges as enforcement where the PCN revenue goes to the operator not them. Authorities use traffic orders and their own enforcement teams.

Google maps is only of use if it is up to date, where exactly is this?

That photo in the file details just says it's a"free photo of person using a pay station in an urban area, so is of little use.

If their appeals process is now closed but they are offering £15 settlement, that is even below the major keying error figure, which suggests they know they are on a loser. You paid why should you pay any more, remember the landowner gets the parking fee the parking operator on get the PCN scam charges go figure their reasoning!

orlandopotto

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81917333#Comment_81917333

To answer your questions: all information online about this car park exists on the City of London website and the sign at the car park itself says 'managed by a car park operator on behalf of the City of London Corporation'. Signage also suggest it's affiliated with Epping Forest (charity). Not sure who my first port of call would be if I wanted to appeal.

The car park is Pillow Mounds in Epping: https://maps.app.goo.gl/MdbrHLUvfxCp7LCDA

Sorry, I should have been clearer. The photo was only demonstrative as I didn't have the real photo to hand. My partner took this picture of one of two machines as it was out of order and you can see that it is a model that does not have a keypad. There is no physical way to enter your reg number. We do not have a photo of the machine that we ended up using since it worked, but I am certain it was the same and Google maps corroborates that (although I know this may be outdated).

I did think that the settlement fee was quite low and considered paying just to be rid of it, but it's the principle of it! Every case I've found online though is about keying errors, but there were no keys to key in error in this instance. But ideally I'd like the charge nulled rather than wait to defend in court, hence why I'm here to see what the public thinks I should/could do.

Any help much appreciated!

Coupon-mad

Signage also suggest it's affiliated with Epping Forest.

Ah OK so it's run under the Countryside Act which means (unusually) it is classed as 'private land' and the City of London can use a private operator (like Swanley Council at Kent Country Parks do).

Trouble is … it sounds like you binned the 100% winning POPLA appeal point of 'no keeper liability' that you had open to you. Your appeal binned that, if you said "I parked" or " there is no way I could have entered this if I tried" or similar unfortunate admittance of driving.

By all means try POPLA with your photo evidence that there are no keypads.

orlandopotto

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81918063#Comment_81918063

Thanks for the advice.

I don't think I've said I was driving at any point, but I did say I was the registered keeper of the car.

Coupon-mad

Then try POPLA with the first point being no keeper liability (non-POFA NTK) then the usual other 2 linked POPLA appeal points (shown in post 3 of the NEWBIES thread about POPLA) then a 4th point and your photo evidence that there are no keypads.