PayPal debt through gambling

unlucky204

Hi all,

I've been getting into debt with PayPal for approx 2 years now through my compulsive gambling. I know this has happened to others but I thought PP cracked down on this. I think perhaps you can't spend as much as previously (thank god) but it still can amount to a fair few hundred a month.

I've always been so careful to control my gambling through not having ANY access to loans or borrowed funds, never had a credit card etc. I know I can't control myself so to physically stop myself having access to any funds is the only way. But I discovered at some point that PayPal will charge your bank to cover a deposit but not take it out til a few days later. Which the bank declines because I never have any funds on the day they take it out. This is just the WORST thing for a gambler, able to use funds they don't have. Of course I inevitably end up £500 down trying to just win £50 back because it's like "oh I'll just deposit a tiny bit, I'll pay it back next week" you can see where it's going.

It doesn't stop til it reaches a certain limit or you end up in the red on PP when they can't take it from your bank. Every time you pay the debt you can do it all over again. I reckon it must be £5k over the past year I've had to pay off total.

I know I'm incredibly stupid for letting this go on so long but I guess I didn't want my bank seeing loads of gambling transactions as it affects things like mortgages etc. not that I have a hope of ever getting one of those! So I used PayPal to deposit with and have been hesitant to close it. But I'm sure the bank have worked out I have a problem by now anyway 😂

I almost closed it after xmas but thought I could control it by blocking gambling sites as they now have a gambling block but you can just turn that off after 3 days. Happened again of course. I must be coming across as a complete idiot, I won't even attempt to explain my behaviour but it's almost like being in a trance and I find it so hard to control when I have access to any funds. It's slots, they are the devil.

Anyway, thanks for reading, I know this is long. It's the middle of the night and I just felt like I had to get this off my chest even though it'll hopefully all be behind me in a couple weeks. I'm only £150 in debt right now and am closing my account the minute I pay that off. I want this stopped so others don't get in the same mess I've been in. I know I need to get a handle on my gambling, it's just about not allowing myself to get out of control. PayPal really allowed me to feed my addiction and I never dreamed I'd end up in this situation.

Altior

It's not PayPal is it, if you're blaming any of the other parties surely it's the gambling site for facilitating PayPal payments.

More years ago than I'd care to mention, when I literally had no money aged 17/18, I knew from work that you could do cashback in a supermarket on amounts that you actually didn't have at the time. As long as I had £1 in the bank, I could purchase a £1 item with max £50 cashback and it wouldn't clear for three working days, ie when I had been paid! I used this plenty of times so I could go out on a jolly, those were the days!

PayPal aren't offering you credit on this, you had the funds at the time. Their systems aren't designed around people trying to cheat that, for whatever purpose, same as my cashback cheat back in the day. I feel you can make a stronger argument that bookmakers shouldn't be permitted to facilitate deposits from payment processing third parties.

ManyWays

If you are gambling online, look at GAMBAN. It is much more effective than Gamstop.
https://gamban.com/

JadedAngel88

Using a gambling block that you can turn off is pointless. You need to self exclude from every casino or brand of casino there is. I did this 20+ years ago and haven't gambled online since. Self exclusion can't be undone for 6 years.

unlucky204

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81913022#Comment_81913022

How is it not PayPal? I didn't have the funds? Literally someone completely unemployed with not a penny to their name could do this. It's a terrifying prospect. Some young guy did it years ago to the tune of £150k! I don't know how that was possible but it happened. I just thank god I wasn't on PayPal back then.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/feb/17/paypal-problem-gamblers-misuse-avoid-bank-limits

I don't really know how I could blame the gambling sites for this. I blame them for plenty trust me, like their promotion of slots on bingo sites. I started off on bingo never having any intention of playing slots but they're all over the site when you're playing and giving out offers for free spins. Gradually I got sucked into an addiction a hundred times worse than bingo. That's another thread in itself though.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81913027#Comment_81913027

Thank you! I'm looking into all of them but assumed Gamstop was superior as seems to get mentioned more. Will keep that in mind. I wish I could still play bingo as I loved just putting a few quid on in an evening, didn't even spend much. But they won't let you block slots so I have to give up all forms of gambling. I know it's for the best.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81913478#Comment_81913478

I know yeah it is pointless. But they only added that recently so I give them a tiny bit of credit for even adding that feature at all. Well done on your 20 years, that's quite something! I know I will have this addiction for life so it's good to know others can kick the habit. I know I need to self-exclude from everything.

Altior

Outside of PayPal credit, PayPal is a payments processor.

What you are stating is that the gambling site allows you to use funds deposited from your bank via PayPal. And them allowing PayPal deposits means that you don't have to prove to the betting platform that you actually have the funds they're allowing you to play with.

Would your solicitor take funds from PayPal for a house deposit? Or would you need to prove and move the actual funds.

I'm afraid the fault lays with the gambling site primarily. They have a duty to ensure that you are able to comfortably fund your gambling. Allowing you to bet with PayPal deposits is failing in that duty.

unlucky204

@Altior well I never looked at it that way before but none of it would be a problem if PayPal didn't allow this. All they have to do is not allow funds to go out at a later date to gambling sites. They already recognise what sites are for gambling as per the gambling block which works every time I've used it. How hard would it be for them to block this type of payment? Don't they have some responsibility as well?

Altior

Perhaps they do, but I can't think of a good reason why a betting platform accepts PayPal deposits in the first place. You can register your debit card details then deposit via them just as easily as PayPal. With PayPal they cannot identify the original source of funds, which they are also mandated to do. If they are licensed operators in the UK. If you really want to push for a resolution I recommend reaching out to the gambling commission.

SpireCaptain

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81913901#Comment_81913901

Have you been using Curve Debit card to use your PayPal Credit deposit on gambling sites or like Altior says just using deposited cash from linked bank account?

That's unbelievable about the £150,000 in one day. What a loophole PayPal left open to be exploited. I wonder how it was resolved especially if any winnings resulted.

unlucky204

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81913909#Comment_81913909

I did think about contacting the UKGC. I just guess they assume if you can deposit then you have funds there and then. That's the only way it should be when it comes to gambling. No loopholes.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81913910#Comment_81913910

It's from the linked bank account. I've never even heard of a curve debit card. I tried taking off the bank account as that's the only way it does this but then I couldn't transfer funds to paypal from my bank so it was pointless.

I think they used to write this sort of stuff off, at least some amounts. People would just ignore them. I only got my debt sent to a debt collector once a couple years ago for a really small amount, think it was £30! Pad it off and it got dropped, they were pretty nice about it. I was only about 35 days in the red on paypal before they sent it to the debt collector. That's because I didn't contact them to explain I was trying to pay it off etc. anyway I would never risk not paying it off! They've obviously cracked down but it's still happening just on a smaller scale, seems to be about £20-£40 per site they'll let you do a day now. So not loads but it mounts up over a few days.

ETA-I had no idea they were going to send it to the debt collector so soon. I mean they did threaten that but I was kinda assuming they'd say "if you don't pay by x date we'll send to debt collectors" lol. So was a bit blindsided by that, especially for £30 which seemed so silly. It would've been way more debt than that to start with so they could see I was paying it off gradually. I can pay it off eventually I just think the idea of being in debt hanging over me fuelled me to gamble even more to get rid of it ASAP.

ManyWays

Paypal is one of the well known routes around restrictions on gambling on credit in the UK; Revolut is another.

I do not think you have any chance of getting redress about this. Instead block the gambling and get a plan to deal with the debts.