Grant of probate

blakeyboy76

Hi,

My dad recently passed away and my mum and dad set up a life interest trust on their will. We recently had a letter from the solicitors to me and my sister regarding costs, we have found out that we can get a grant of probate through gov online which is a lot cheaper.

They have quoted over £3000 for this and land registry for me and my sister.

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Can anyone give us good advice on this, as this seems very expensive.

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RAS

Immediate Post Death Interest Trusts are common and most people here do there own probate.

But there are a few bits of information that you that you need to check or provide.

Is the house held as tenants in common or as a basic joint tenancy? If your mum is not sure it costs £7 to download the deeds which should provide the information. An IPDI trust requires tenancy in common but it's not unknown for solicitor to arrange a will and fail to sever the tenancy, or the couple not to understand the need.

Approximate value of the house and total estate? Check whether mum became sole owner of joint accounts on dad's death.

poseidon1

Also be aware, that this matter does not end with probate.

As the solicitor pointed out there is a continuing trust in favour of your mother for the rest of her life, which comes with its own ongoing trustee responsibilities and potential tax implications in future.

I note in this regard, that the solicitor advised that your mother '..... will be entitled to any income the property accumulates'. This suggests, even if the property has to be sold in future (eg mother going into a care home ) the trust continues on her behalf with the sale proceeds having to be invested to provide her a lifetime income. This will almost certainly give rise to ongoing trustee tax liabilities to be considered.

The trust ( and its implications) may prove a steep learning curve for you both, if the property ever has to be sold during your mother's lifetime.

blakeyboy76

Hi,

My mum wants us to be tenants in common with her.
The house is valued at 500,000, no estate.

Is £995 plus vat a lot for updating the property title with the land registry?

Land_Registry

A very common and familiar enquiry and plenty of things to be considered both from a legal ownership perspective, which we register, and a beneficial ownership one (wills/trusts) that we don't directly deal with

You haven't mentioned whether your parents were both registered as legal owners or not but I'm guessing they are. If so then probate is not required as the legal ownership of the property does not form part of your late Father's estate. That legal ownership has passed to your Mother to deal with.

That is true whether they are tenants in common (TIC) or joint tenants and the register will not be definitive on that point anyway. The wills/trust created effectively made them TIC. Many then apply for what's known as a form A/joint ownership restriction on the register BUT they don't have to - Joint property ownership: Overview - GOV.UK

The solicitor maybe advising you obtain probate for other reasons but as mentioned we don't deal with wills/trusts. And HMRC deal with the trust aspect for the reasons advised.

Looking forward 'Mum wants us to be TIC with her' - that can be read a few ways with regards what happens next and I would strongly recommend seeking legal advice as to what the options are and what's actually 'best' for your Mum/Us taking into account the wills/trust created - that may have already been discussed but not shared.

From a purely registration perspective there maybe nothing to do - your Father's death is sadly factual and can be proven as and when needed re the property. You could also make a case that you (Us) are already effectively TIC if the register refers to both parents and a form A restriction as the latter protects the wills/trust and you (Us) as beneficiaries.

However you may mean that she wants the legal ownership transferred into her and your (Us) joint names - that too is an option and it would be for your Mother to transfer the whole of the title/property/legal ownership to herself and you (Us) - there's no transfer of a share as the legal ownership must always be transferred a whole.

Other options may exist as well such but those are the two I suspect most consider. You may take the view that you and your sister are already protected as beneficiaries as your Mother is still alive and registered and there's a form A restriction preventing her from say selling on her own. You may also need to sonder whether either of you are planning to buy your own first home and becoming a legal owner of this one may impact on that plan later eg SDLT

Plenty to consider, not least whether probate is actually needed, before you apply to update the legal ownership for the property. Once you have checked the register and decided on what's 'best' our online assisted guidance can help walk you through what's needed from a purely registration perspective - HMLR Guide: Start - External  · HM Land Registry

poseidon1

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81911188#Comment_81911188

Your father's will does not give you that option.

If you want to get rid of the trust, and become co owners of the property with your mother ( which would be a bad idea by the way), all three of you would have to execute a Deed of Variation to that effect, which would certainly require a solicitor's input to draft the appropriate wording on your behalf. Doubt whether any of the forumites here would encourage that course of action.

Incidentally, such an action would prematurely use up £250k of your father's nil rate band, as well as expose you and your sibling to potential CGT on a future sale of the home .